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From what I can tell of Jaime Lannister, he is a good swordsman, because he has fought numerous battles and lived to tell the tale.

What I can't find is any evidence of him beating anyone in a duel with anyone actually good with a sword. All the one-on-one fights he has taken part in with anyone who is particularly skilled with a sword have been inconclusive.

These include:

  • Big Belly Ben of the Kingswood Brotherhood: He saves Lord Sumner Crakehall, but Ben escapes.
  • The Smiling Knight of the Kingswood Brotherhood: He managed to hold him back until Ser Arthur Dayne managed to take over and kill him.
  • Ned Stark: One of Jaime's guards manages to intervene by attacking Ned before the fight is over.
  • Brienne of Tarth: Their fight is interrupted my Vargo Hoat (Locke in the TV series).

There might be more, but I can't find anything about them on the wiki.

He might have won a tourney melée or two in his youth, but from what I can tell most of the better knights joust, so I doubt he would have bested anyone noteworthy in a sword fight during a tourney.

And he was only given the position of Kingsguard by Aerys because he wanted to make sure that Tywin's heir couldn't inherit his lands.

Every other scenario I can think of that he has fought in throughout the timeline of the books/tv show have been in a group, like the Battle of the Whispering Wood and when he attempted to escape from Riverrun (books).

Of course, now that he has lost his right hand it is likely that he will never be good again, but with his left hand he can't even compete with Ser Ilyn Payne/Bronn.

I have no doubt that Jaime was good, as he is an heir of one of the greater houses, so would have had the best training, but where did he gain this fearsome reputation of being one of the best? Was it simply because he became a Kingsguard so young?

EDIT: Thanks to the comment of Nika G for pointing out the feats of Barristan the Bold, this is the exact kind of thing I'm looking for.

There's not much in the White Book about Jaime, and that's kind of what I mean. Whilst he has shown his bravery (protecting Brienne from being killed) and ferocity (trying to kill Robb after he had already lost the Battle of the Whispering Wood), we haven't had much proof of his supposed legendary skill.

I don't doubt that Jaime is actually a good swordsman, he has cut down knights left, right and center. But they were all less experienced/not as well trained, that's nothing more than many others have done. People like Ned Stark, Jon Snow & Stannis Baratheon are all considered good swordsmen, but none of them are called the best.

I'm saying that Jaime hasn't done much to claim the mantle of the best (or one of) other than being appointed the youngest Kingsguard in history, which he didn't get on battle merits alone. I'm asking if his reputation might have originated from somewhere other than that, or if people had given him this accolade simply from seeing him fight (like Barristan Selmy).

Brad
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Mike.C.Ford
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  • This is clearly answered in the books. – Gaius Apr 23 '15 at 11:30
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    @Gaius can you elaborate? – Daft Apr 23 '15 at 11:56
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    Note that GoT isn't part of the Marvel universe, therefore a good swordsman is only a little bit better than an average swordsman. Maybe Jaime could have beaten two average swordsmen (or a few more of the untalented scum) on his own, but three could overwhelm him. – Chris Apr 23 '15 at 12:26
  • @Chris have you read the books or seen the most recent episodes of the show? – Daft Apr 23 '15 at 12:53
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    I guess the whole issue was handwaved. – Natural30 Apr 23 '15 at 13:01
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    @Daft: 4 books and 4 seasons, but it doesn't matter. My point was that the OP shouldn't expect superpowers of a good swordsman. The listed battles are already a good achievement for Jaime and get him into the top 10 of alive swordsmen. – Chris Apr 23 '15 at 13:15
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    In a world where people routinely die by the sword, being able to say you've fought the best and lived is enough to be counted AMONG the best. – Omegacron Apr 23 '15 at 13:46
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    @Chris: When Jaime/Brienne are surrounded by many men, about to be captured, he thinks that while still chained, he and Brienne could kill several of them if he had his sword, but would die. I rather think unencumbered he could handle three or four on his own. OTOH, he's cocky and arrogant. – Mooing Duck Apr 23 '15 at 16:41
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    So his fight with Brienne was interrupted. Wasn't he literally fighting with his hands tied? I think fighting a great (or even good) swords(wo)man with a significant handicap and holding his own qualifies him as "great", too. – KSmarts Apr 24 '15 at 02:59
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    In response to your edit : he was knighted when he was 15, by Ser Arthur Dayne, after he held his own against the Smiling Knight of the Kingswood Brotherhood. – Daft Apr 24 '15 at 09:18
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    @KSmarts When fighting Brienne he was also emaciated from months of imprisonment. – ssell Apr 24 '15 at 17:14
  • One of my biggest disappointments was the intervention of the Lannister guard in the duel between Jaime and Ned Stark; I always hoped that Ned Stark was in fact a better swordsman, but now we will never know. – TylerH Apr 25 '15 at 00:17
  • Per the OP comment about Jon being good but not great, Ramsay Bolton has something to say about it. "I keep hearing stories about you, bastard. The way people in the North talk about you, you're the greatest swordsman who ever walked. " http://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/132794/22915 Not conclusive about anything, but something to consider. – Jeff Jul 25 '16 at 21:29
  • You can see how good someone is, even when he is fighting weak opponents. It's not just about who he defeats, but his speed, his form, his agility. It's in the little details too. The sword grip, the mind games and fake outs. Sword fencing is about finesse. For example the mountain was just monstrously strong. He could power through any battle, but he wasn't a top swordsman, and got easily defeated by Oberyn in ability alone. – CyberClaw Aug 03 '17 at 11:00
  • but with his left hand he can't even compete with [Bronn] Err, in GoT land Bronn is surely one of the most dangerous swordsmen alive...!? – Grimm The Opiner Aug 03 '17 at 15:25

3 Answers3

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His reputation is established long before the books or the show take place. But once he loses his hand we never really see him anywhere near as dangerous as he was at his peak. His accomplishments before he lost his hand definitely justify his reputation though:

He won his first tourney at the age of 13:

At the age of eleven, Jaime was sent to Crakehall to squire for old Lord Sumner Crakehall alongside Merrett Frey. Two years later, while still a squire, he won his first tourney melee.

He was fighting against adult knights, which is pretty impressive.

Possibly Jaime's greatest achievement was his ascension to knighthood at the age of 15. He was knighted by Ser Arthur Dayne, after he held his own against the Smiling Knight of the Kingswood Brotherhood.

He was also the youngest ever to become a Kingsguard. Although it's possible that Aerys II only chose Jaime in order to keep him close as a form of insurance to keep Tywin in check.

And thanks to Mighty Mouse for the comment :

Also in the Battle of the Whispering Wood he made an impression on the north men, killing many soldiers on his way to challenge Rob in single combat. This would add to his reputation

The opinions of a few of the main characters regarding Jaime' prowess in battle :

Sansa Stark (A Game of Thrones) :

In the end it came down to four; the Hound and his monstrous brother Gregor, Jaime Lannister the Kingslayer, and Ser Loras Tyrell, the youth they called the Knight of Flowers.

Catelyn Stark (A Game of Thrones) :

“No one can fault Lannister on his courage,” Glover said. “When he saw that he was lost, he rallied his retainers and fought his way up to the valley, hoping to reach Lord Robb and cut him down. And almost did.” “He mislaid his sword in Eddard Karstark’s neck, after he took Torrhen’s hand off and split Daryn Hornwood’s skull open,” Robb said. “All the time he was shouting for me. If they hadn’t tried to stop him--”

Brienne (A Feast for the Crows) :

Brienne remembered her fight with Jaime Lannister in the woods. It had been all that she could do to keep his blade at bay. He was weak from his imprisonment, and chained at the wrists. No knight in the Seven Kingdoms could have stood against him at his full strength, with no chains to hamper him. Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight! His maiming had been monstrously cruel. It was one thing to slay a lion, another to hack his paw off and leave him broken and bewildered.

Kingbreaker (A Dance with Dragons) (possible spoiler) :

Black as maester’s ink he was, but fast and strong, the best natural swordsman Selmy had seen since Jaime Lannister.

Daft
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    Also in the battle of the whispering wood he made an impression on the north men, killing many soldiers on his way to challenge Rob in single combat. This would add to his reputation – Mikey Mouse Apr 23 '15 at 11:07
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    By the Battle of the Whispering Wood, it was quite likely the last time he fought to an audience, he already had the reputation. And the age thing is impressive, but Robb was an undefeated battle strategist at the age of 14. And like I said earlier, the best knights did not generally fight in the melée. Was it enough to make him reportedly one of the greatest fighters in the land? – Mike.C.Ford Apr 23 '15 at 11:17
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    He killed two of Lord Karstark's sons while trying to reach Robb. – TLP Apr 23 '15 at 11:32
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    I get the impression getting the reputation is the easy part. You get lucky in a fight against your superior when you're young and word of your brilliance spreads. Keeping that reputation and not backing down from a fight is the hard part and that's exactly what he did in the Whispering Wood. The evidence of good swordsmanship in that he behaved like that since his knighting. – Mikey Mouse Apr 23 '15 at 12:51
  • In the TV show (sorry haven't read the books), when he was being "re-trained" by Bronn - I was given the impression he received his reputation while fighting by the rules, or honorably. If that is so, it is even more evidence of his skill - considering even an idiot with a sword can do something unexpectedly underhanded to gain a victory. – DoubleDouble Apr 23 '15 at 20:09
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    @MikeyMouse I think that's the point of the OP's question: was he actually good, or did people just say he was? – Möoz Apr 23 '15 at 21:03
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    @MikeyMouse In real life, sometimes reputation is everything. It doesn't even have to be entirely true. Read about gunfighters on Wikipedia: once their reputation was established, they were set. They almost always picked easy fights, avoided other marksmen and gunfighters, and exaggerated their past victories. Maybe swordmen in Westeros are modeled after real-world gunfighters? :) (I agree with you that Jamie's actions at the Whispering Wood seem to prove he actually is a good swordman!) – Andres F. Apr 23 '15 at 22:58
  • In addition, let us remember that it takes no small amount of skill to cut down foes left and right for hours on end with nary a scratch. He may run into trouble in 1v1 combat with some of the other great swordsmen, but they may not be able to handle the hordes as well as he. He may not be the best at everything sword related, but he's pretty damn good. – JMD Apr 24 '15 at 13:21
  • "Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight!" In other words, he's the best there is at what he does, but what he does best isn't very nice. – KSmarts Apr 24 '15 at 14:03
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    Brienne was already succumbing to her crush on Jaime when she thought no knight could have stood against him. The Cleganes (yes, I know, Sandor isn't a knight), Ned Stark, Ser Barristan and fighters like Ser Jorah or Ser Bronn would have chances even if not technically quite as good. – TheMathemagician Apr 18 '16 at 12:15
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A Dance With Dragons, Barristan Selmy's chapter "The Kingbreaker".

Barristan Selmy's thoughts about one of his squires -

Tumco Lho. Black as maester's ink he was, but fast and strong, the best natural swordsman he has seen since Jaime Lannister.

When you get credit from Barristan Selmy that definitely counts for something.

Nika G.
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  • That's about as solid a proof as you can find in the books. He had the skill and the attitude that kept his reputation as one of the best in the land. – Mikey Mouse Apr 23 '15 at 15:14
  • @MikeyMouse - Agreed. Ser Barristan himself is a legendary swordsman, and had hands on experience of Jaime's skill level, which gives his testimony so much weight. – System Down Apr 23 '15 at 23:10
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    But what about Barristan's reputation? I mean, sure, they call him "the Bold," but is there any evidence that he's actually a great swordsman? :P – KSmarts Apr 24 '15 at 03:01
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    @KSmarts The White Book records should be enough :D – Nika G. Apr 24 '15 at 05:45
  • @KSmarts Just wait and watch – KharoBangdo Apr 24 '15 at 06:15
  • @KSmarts - The White Book alone has a long list of the duels, tourneys and battles Barristan has won. Of King Aerys's seven, I think the only one revered more than Barristan is Ser Arthur Dayne, The Sword of the Morning. – System Down Apr 24 '15 at 15:47
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    Apparently, even a :P emoticon in your comment isn't enough to make it clear that you're joking... – KSmarts Apr 24 '15 at 15:50
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    @KSmarts - ASOIAF fandom is serious, serious business. We have to do something while we wait for book 6 :D – System Down Apr 25 '15 at 16:47
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Well, it seems that most of his reputation is based on his exploits before the start of the show. Now I have not read the books, but if the show is accurate, then it seems as though a big part of why he is considered one of the best is not who he has beaten but how he has won the battles he has been in and that is without ever being injured. So for him to never get injured in a battle up until his capture by Rob Stark is pretty great.

Obsidia
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Manny
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