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There's a lot of emphasis on Harry becoming the master of the Elder Wand after he defeats Draco. But what constitutes a “defeat”?

It seems that Harry wins a wrestling match with Draco, so now he’s the master of the Elder Wand.

But lots of other stuff happens to Harry: Nagini almost kills him, and he escapes just in time, but his wand breaks. The Snatchers chase him through the forest. He and his friends practically surrender (and Hermione even tries to disguise Harry). Voldemort almost kills Harry in the Forbidden Forest (or actually does, depending on how you look at it).

Why are none of these considered to be “defeats”?

alexwlchan
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Brian
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    "You still don't get it, Riddle, do you? Possessing the wand isn't enough! Holding it, using it, doesn't make it really yours. Didn't you listen to Ollivander? The wand chooses the wizard . . ." (Deathly Hallows -- Chapter 36) – Valorum Dec 20 '14 at 17:22
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    The snake and the snatchers come after he steals Draco's wand. And I'm not sure that allowing someone else to kill you counts as them defeating you, as that is what Dumbledore was originally planning with Snape. – Beast-a-tron Dec 20 '14 at 17:28
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    @Beast-a-tron I assume you meant to say that they came before, not after? – Anthony Grist Dec 20 '14 at 17:39
  • @AnthonyGrist yeah, that is what I meant. Whoops – Beast-a-tron Dec 20 '14 at 17:39
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    Its complicated. Harry is part Voldy horcrux when he defeats Malfoy. Harry is part Voldy when Voldy kills him. But Voldy is also Harry's horcrux when that happens. Voldermorts kills part of himself but fails to kill Harry in the end. The one that is defeated there is really Voldermort. –  Dec 20 '14 at 23:59
  • It's a plot hole. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 17:05

5 Answers5

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First, a quick timeline for Deathly Hallows:

  • The trio flee Bill and Fleur’s wedding, and go on the run. They break into the Ministry and overhear some refugees in the woods, and Ron leaves the group. (Chapters 9–15)

  • Harry and Hermione go to Godric’s Hollow, where Harry is attacked by Nagini. (Chapters 16–18)

  • Ron returns, they recover Gryffindor’s sword, visit Xeno Lovegood, and learn about the Deathly Hallows. (Chapters 19–22)

  • They get picked up by Snatchers (end of chapter 22), taken to Malfoy Manor (chapter 33), and Harry steals several wands from Draco during their escape (end of 33). This is when Harry first becomes master of the Elder Wand; see a related question for more detail.

  • They break into Gringotts, steal the sword and the cup, head for Hogsmeade, prepare for the battle of Hogwarts, Harry goes to the Forest, and upon Voldemort’s return to the castle, they have their final duel.

So Nagini and the Snatchers don’t factor into Harry’s mastery of the Elder Wand, because both of these occur before he takes possession of the Elder Wand. As to why Voldemort’s killing curse in the Forest doesn’t give him mastery, I think the answer comes from this line in their final duel:

Harry saw Voldemort’s green jet meet his own spell, saw the Elder Wand fly high, dark against the sunrise, spinning across the enchanted ceiling like the head of Nagini, spinning through the air toward the master it would not kill, who had come to take full possession of it at last.

— Deathly Hallows, chapter 36 (The Flaw in the Plan)

Because the wand couldn’t attack Harry (at least, not fully) in the Forest, Voldemort didn’t really “defeat” him. Had he attacked Harry with any other wand, Voldemort would probably have taken mastery of the Elder Wand.

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alexwlchan
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    that's a perfect answer and at the time of Voldemort tried to kill harry he killed the Horcrux inside Harry Potter... – VENKI Dec 22 '14 at 11:26
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    I can't believe this answer got 12 upvotes. Read my answer below. Killing has nothing to do with mastery or the "winning" of a wand. And in several other instances VM did try to kill Harry with another wand (his own, Lucious's, etc.) and his spells wouldn't work. So what you said there was incorrect as well. There are a lot of plot holes in HP that simply cannot be answered. – JMFB Mar 30 '15 at 01:21
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    I have to say, I disagree with the last paragraph in this answer. The Elder Wand did attack Harry fully in the Forest and did kill him, as much as any Killing Curse could possibly have killed him. King’s Cross was as dead as Harry could get at that point, at least at Voldemort’s hands (regardless of wand). The fact that Harry wanted it to attack him fully is probably why it did, though, which is where the Forest differs from the Great Hall: there he knew he was master of it and had no intention of dying or letting himself be killed. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 15 '15 at 20:43
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    As I argue below, it wouldn’t have mattered in the Forest if Voldemort had used a different wand—he would still have killed Harry, and Harry would still have come back. It would, however, have mattered in the Great Hall. The only thing that protected Harry there was the fact that the Elder Wand would not work against him, and if Voldemort had used his own wand, there’s a good chance his Killing Curse would have bested Harry’s Expelliarmus, and Harry would have been killed—properly, this time. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 15 '15 at 20:46
  • Harry cannot be killed by Voldemort, ever. As Lily's protection lies in his blood. – Neel Dayal Mar 28 '21 at 13:37
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The very simple and short answer:

Because Harry was never defeated as Master of the Elder Wand

alexwlchan’s answer has already pointed out that the Snatchers and Nagini’s attack on Harry occurred before Harry was Master of the Elder Wand and therefore do not affect this in any way; the following explains why Voldemort did not become the Wand’s Master after killing Harry.

 

The much more complex and longer answer:

As is mentioned many times throughout the series, wandlore is a complex and not fully understood subject. Even experts like Ollivander (and Dumbledore, it must be added) do not fully understand it and are frequently left with no better alternative than to make educated conjectures. However, it seems clear from various tales and incidents throughout the books that the Elder Wand was actually different from other wands in how it chose and changed its allegiance.

Allegiance in regular wands

As far as we can tell, regular wands maintain their allegiance to their master until they are forcibly taken from the master and not returned. These remarks by Ollivander bear that out (all quotes from the books are from the UK/Bloomsbury versions):

‘Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.’
‘Was?’ repeated Harry. ‘Isn’t it still his?’
‘Perhaps not. If you took it –’
‘– I did –’
‘– then it may be yours. Of course, the manner of taking matters. Much also depends upon the wand itself. In general, however, where a wand has been won, its allegiance will change.’

Deathly Hallows, ch. 24 “The Wandmaker”, p. 399

Note that Harry took the wand from Draco here, at Malfoy Manor. He did not use magic to do so, but he took the wand nonetheless, and he did not intend to give it back (and I think it’s safe to assume that Draco did not willingly let Harry have it):

As Ron ran to pull Hermione out of the wreckage, Harry took his chance; he leapt over an armchair and wrested the three wands from Draco’s grip, pointed all of them at Greyback and yelled: ’Stupefy!’

On the other hand, practice sessions and games do not seem to constitute ‘winning’ a wand. Since people can often feel it if they are using a wand they are not the master of, we would expect quite a lot of Hogwarts students to lose mastery of their wands every time someone Expelliarmus’ed them in class or in DA (Dumbledore’s Army, not Dark Arts) training. Simply beating someone up does not cause their wand to change allegiance, either, or Hermione would have won Draco’s wand when she punched him in the face in the third year, for example. Finally, there are several instances of people borrowing wands from each other with no sign that the wands perform suboptimally for the borrower.

 

Allegiance in the Elder Wand

The Elder Wand, on the other hand, has neither of these limitations. It is (presumably) the most powerful wand in existence, but it is also more fickle than regular wands. It changes allegiance as soon as it senses that its current master has been defeated or bested by another wizard, in any way:

  • When its original owner, a Peverell brother, is knifed in his sleep, it changes its allegiance (though it is not taken from him until after death)
  • When Draco disarms Dumbledore at the top of the Astronomy Tower, it changes its allegiance (though Draco never takes it)
  • When Harry bests Draco by scuffling with him and forcibly taking his wand at Malfoy Manor, it changes its allegiance (though Draco doesn’t even have it)

 

Defeat and intent

Very crucial here, however, is the concept of being defeated. We need to look at Dumbledore’s plans for his own death a year earlier for this:

‘Well, really, this makes matters much more straightforward.’
Snape looked perplexed. Dumbledore smiled.
‘I refer to the plan Lord Voldemort is revolving around me. His plan to have the poor Malfoy boy murder me.’ […]
‘The Dark Lord does not expect Draco to succeed.’ […]
‘Now, I should have thought the natural successor to the job, once Draco fails, is yourself?’
‘That, I think, is the Dark Lord’s plan.’ […]
‘Ultimately, of course, there is only one thing to be done if we are to save [Draco] from Lord Voldemort’s wrath.’
Snape raised his eyebrows and his tone was sardonic as he asked, ‘Are you intending to let him kill you?’
‘Certainly not. You must kill me.’

Deathly Hallows, ch. 33 “The Prince’s Tale”, p. 549–550

It was Dumbledore’s belief (correct, as it turned out) that if his objective was to be killed, the Elder Wand would not consider him defeated and would not change its allegiance. Its allegiance would remain with a dead man, and there would be no True Master to wield the wand. If you intend to lose, losing is actually winning. However:

‘If you planned your death with Snape, you meant him to end up with the Elder Wand, didn’t you?’
‘I admit that was my intention,’ said Dumbledore, ‘but it did not work as I had intended, did it?’

Deathly Hallows, ch. 35 “King’s Cross”, p. 578

From this, we glean that Draco disarming Dumbledore was a chink in the plan. The wand considered Dumbledore defeated when it was forcibly taken from him—and losing the wand before being killed was not part of his plan. His plan had failed, and the Elder Wand still had a True Master, although this master is not aware of it.

For the exact same reason, when Harry entered the clearing in the Forest and let Voldemort kill him, he was not defeated. Quite the opposite: he won that duel. Being killed was precisely his intention. If one of the Death Eaters standing there had sprung forth and disarmed him first, it is entirely possible that that Death Eater would have won the Wand’s allegiance, because that was not part of his plan or intent—but unlike with Dumbledore, no one did. Harry allowed Voldemort to kill him, and the Wand’s allegiance remained with him when he died, and after he came back from King’s Cross as well.

Harry is not Master of the Elder Wand for very long, and during the time he is, he is only involved in four real fights:

  1. charging their way out of Gringotts
  2. fighting Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle in the Room of Requirements
  3. his non-duel with Voldemort in the Forest
  4. his duel with Voldemort in the Great Hall

The only one of these that could count as a defeat is 3, but the fact that 3 is also a victory is confirmed both by Dumbledore’s plan and the fact that the Elder Wand hadn’t changed its allegiance before 4, when Voldemort ends up killing himself (again).

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Janus Bahs Jacquet
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    100% with you on the matter of intent being the crucial factor when dealing with the wands allegiance. As a bit of supporting evidence you might want to consider Lily's sacrifice, it neatly shows why matters of intent are so important to the Old/Deep magic, of which wandlore seems to be a part. – DavidS May 15 '15 at 16:47
  • @DavidS Good point. Lily ‘defeated’ (as it were) Voldemort as well because she was prepared and willing to die for her son, even though I hardly think we can call it her intention as such. If she had been the Master of the Elder Wand at that moment, I wonder if it would have switched allegiance to Voldemort or not—if her willingness was enough to count her death as a non-defeat. Overall, though, I think it probably would have: after all, in a normal duel, you don’t enter at all if you’re not prepared on some level to lose. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 15 '15 at 16:51
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    I wasn't really saying the situations are the same, just have similar elements. I'm pretty sure JK has stated that the fact that Lily was unarmed and was willingly giving up her life for Harry was a major part of what triggered the protection, and that if she'd fought back (like James) it wouldn't have worked. She didn't know about the protection so we can't say she "defeated" V (indeed, I still think it would count as a defeat for the Elder Want) in the sense we're talking about, but it does show that intent ("I will sacrifice myself willingly") triggers the old magic. – DavidS May 15 '15 at 17:00
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    @DavidS Yes, I see what you mean. And we mustn’t forget that when Harry lets himself get killed in the Forest, he’s not only killing off the bit of Voldemort that lives in himself, but simultaneously also ‘doing a Lily’ and giving protection to everyone fighting for him at the school. Hence why Molly Weasley successfully finishes of Bellatrix Lestrange who, in fairness, was vastly more powerful and skilled than Molly. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 15 '15 at 20:49
  • @Janusbahsjacquet I was excited to read this...but...I was hoping for some in canon quotes, if you could add them that'd be great otherwise it's conjecture. You didn't answer a lot of issues we were discussing and didn't address certain things. You also contradicted yourself a few times. I have a question. Did Draco fight back or resist in any way when Harry took his wand? – JMFB May 18 '15 at 20:12
  • @JMFB It is conjecture. It’s never mentioned outright in canon—it’s a matter of putting together individual pieces scattered throughout the books to make a coherent scenario. I know there are some things that we discussed in the comments that I left out in the answer, but I rather felt the answer was getting too long, and all those things were incidental to this question here. Did I contradict myself anywhere? I’ll get that fixed, then—where is it? – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 18 '15 at 20:17
  • (I edited in a quote for Harry’s taking the wand from Draco. Wasn’t exactly a fight, but he did wrest it out of his grip.) – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 18 '15 at 20:22
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It is an excellent question and I haven't ever heard a sufficient "In-Universe" answer because there is none. I've struggled with it for years and have concluded there is no acceptable answer, other than it's a plot hole.

I'll address the answers given and explain why it's simply a plot hole:

Answer 1) Harry didn't put up a fight in the forest, he let himself be killed by voldemort so it doesn't constitute a real defeat.

-That makes absolutely no sense. Dumbeldore did not put up a fight against Draco when Draco disarmed him. Dumbeldore wanted to be killed, which would happen either by Draco, or if not Draco then by Snape. Dumbeldore gave no resistance yet the wand considered him defeated. This is the exact same scenario, yet the ownership transferred to Draco. Fighting or putting up a defense is not requisite for losing a wand

Answer 2) Harry didn't actually die in the forbidden forest just Voldemorts piece of him.

-You don't have to die to lose possession. You only have to be defeated and a minor defeat at that. Dumbeldore didn't fight back at all and didn't die to lose his mastership over the elder wand. Draco lost it to Harry and all Harry did was take Draco's wand out of his hand, and it wasn't even the elder wand, but his other wand, there wasn't even a fight. Draco didn't die and he lost mastery over the elder wand. Harry clearly lost the fight in the forest whether Harry defended himself, fought back or wanted to lose is immaterial. What part of Harry died, is also immaterial. Since death is not a necessary factor in winning a wand. Voldemort should have become its master at that point.

Answer 3) The wand chooses the wizard.

"You still don't get it, Riddle, do you? Possessing the wand isn't enough! Holding it, using it, doesn't make it really yours. Didn't you listen to Ollivander? The wand chooses the wizard . . ." (Deathly Hallows -- Chapter 36)

But usually what they're referring to is at the time of the purchase. But winning a wand is seems to be a relatively simple process. Ollivander states: :

"In general, however, where a wand has been won, its allegiance will change.” Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Chapter Twenty-Four (The Wandmaker)

-Harry won possession of the Elder wand by simply taking Draco's other wand, not the elder wand, out of his hand at Draco Manor. So it doesn't take much to "win" a wand. The wizard doesn't even have to be in possession of it at the time. Winning a wand trumps the initial choice of the wand, it's allegiance changes.

Answer 4) It wasn't really a defeat, redundant.

-This would be the best explanation in that the elder wand refused to kill Harry. But again the Elder wand had no problem casting spells at Harry. The piece of Voldemorts soul did end up in Purgatory but so did Harry's. So the wand did affect Harry. Dumbeldore even told him he could move on or choose to go back, choosing to go back means that Voldemort using the Elder wand sent him someplace else, easily a win. It wasn't as if just the Voldemort part of harry went to Purgatory Harry did as well.

Harry Potter and the deathly hollows:

Harry Potter: I have to go back, haven't I?

Professor Albus Dumbledore: Oh, that's up to you.

Harry Potter: I have a choice?

Professor Albus Dumbledore: Oh, yes. We're in King's Cross, you say? I think, if you so desired, you'd be able to board a train.

Harry Potter: And where would it take me?

Professor Albus Dumbledore: On.

So the elder wand in Voldemorts possession sent Harry to the exact same place it sent the piece of Voldemorts soul that resided in Harry. Harry elected to come back to the world of the living. Again it doesn't matter whether the elder wand would deal Harry a fatal blow or not, it just needs to be a "win" which it clearly was.

It is an excellent question and there is no acceptable answer for why ownership of the elder wand didn't pass in the forest to Voldemort. It should have. I've addressed every answer given on the site, or the I've ever heard thus far. I eagerly await somebody to adequately find a solution to this so I can reconcile this issue. So my answer is that it's a plot hole, and a large gaping one at that.

JMFB
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    Dumbledore did NOT want to be killed by Draco, as that would be murder and thus damaging to Draco's soul; damage which Dumbledore wanted to prevent. OTOH, dying at Snape's hand was a sort of mercy killing, since Snape knew Dumbledore had been fatally cursed. – GreenMatt Jan 30 '15 at 15:20
  • I was simply stating that Dumbledore accepted the fact that he was going to be murdered whether it be by Draco's hand or Snape's. Dumbledore: Don't ignore me, Severus. We both know Lord Voldemort has ordered the Malfoy boy to murder me. BUT SHOULD HE FAIL, I should presume the Dark Lord will turn to you. You must be the one to kill me... DD clearly would rather have snape do it, Harry's parents be alive, VM be a good guy, etc., but he was clearly willing to accept his fate by the hand of Draco and that was my point. I do encourage you to address something more Germane to my post. – JMFB Feb 09 '15 at 16:10
  • Dumbledore accepted that the curse would kill him in a relatively short time. Knowing the Death Eaters wanted Draco to murder him, Dumbledore worked to prevent that; referring to Draco he said: "That boy's soul is not yet so damaged. I would not have it ripped apart on my account." Thus he arranged for Snape to be the one to kill him when it came to that. – GreenMatt Feb 11 '15 at 15:43
  • "BUT SHOULD HE FAIL..." He arranged that if Draco failed Snape would do it. Since Lucius Malfoy didn't have the stomach for it he had a strong feeling that Draco wouldn't carry it out. Of course he didn't want a young boy to commit a murder. But that was not his PRIMARY concern. His PRIMARY concern was that Snape had Voldemorts confidence to make sure that Harry fulfilled his destiny. – JMFB Feb 16 '15 at 20:05
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    -1 If there is no acceptable answer, why are you posting one? Also, Dumbledore couldn't put up a fight on the roof, on account of the curse-water. – Dave Johnson May 14 '15 at 18:50
  • @DaveJohnson Maybe I should clarify, there is no in universe answer. The answer is the one I gave, which is that it's a plot hole. Hence my second and last sentences. The end of my second sentence: "...there is no acceptable answer, other than it's a plot hole." My last sentence: "So my answer is that it's a plot hole, and a large gaping one at that." So how about a "+1" instead of your "-1" for the thoroughness, thought process, use of citations, and form? And you can "-" the other lacking answers lacking thought and logic instead of mine if you feel like it. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 18:57
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    As you say, fighting, putting up a defence, and dying are all irrelevant to being defeated. But its master’s intent is relevant. If you go into a duel with the preexisting intention of being successfully hit by a spell (and suffering the consequences of that spell), then being hit by that spell is not defeat. Snape’s Avada Kedavra would not have won him the allegiance of the Elder Wand, since Dumbledore would not have been defeated. But Dumbledore did not intend to be disarmed by Draco—that was a defeat. It allowed allegiance to pass on, rather than die with Dumbledore. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 19:19
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    Similarly, when Harry is killed by Voldemort in the Forest, he intends to be killed, and the wand does not change its allegiance. If Seamus Finnigan had suddenly jumped out from behind a tree and and disarmed Harry just before, then he would have been the master of the Elder Wand. And if Harry hadn’t had a piece of Voldemort inside, which enabled him to return to life, then the Elder Wand’s allegiance would simply have died: it would have recognised no master. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 19:21
  • @JanusBahsJacquet I like your answer. It's better than any I've heard. especially the ones above. I understand intent. Are you saying intent is the only factor that matters then? Do you have any in-universe support for this? – JMFB May 14 '15 at 19:22
  • Only inasmuch as it’s the only answer that truly makes sense and ties everything together—and of course the circumstantial evidence that Dumbledore spends so much time making Harry see that choices and intent are much more important than prophecies and things like that. And doesn’t Harry himself at some point figure out that Dumbledore meant for the allegiance to die with him? I can’t remember now if I’ve got that from the actual books or from somewhere else. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 19:24
  • @JanusBahsJacquet also what is your proof that Dumbledore did not intend to be disarmed by Draco? – JMFB May 14 '15 at 19:25
  • @JanusBahsJacquet ah so it's conjecture on your part. I do like the thought process, and will have to consider it. I'd like to know what your proof is that Dumbledore did not intend to be disarmed by Draco. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 19:26
  • Again, only circumstantial evidence. Dumbledore knew with near-complete certainty that Draco was not a killer (his confidence at the Tower bears that out). He used this and Snape’s Unbreakable Vow to make sure that when his death came, it would be in a way that left him undefeated, so the Elder Wand lost its power (and hence, danger, especially in the hands of Voldemort). Draco disarming Dumbledore screwed that plan up completely—suddenly, the Elder Wand’s allegiance and power lived on, which was exactly what he was trying to avoid. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 19:29
  • @JanusBahsJacquet I would think the opposite, it'd be quite clear to DD that Draco wouldn't cast AK but probably a lesser disarming spell. So it made perfect sense that Draco would become the owner. Otherwise DD could just not have pulled his wand out at all. And what makes you think that the Elder Wand would lose its power if it didn't have an owner? Wands don't lose their power just because they're ownerless. In fact you can use a wand that isn't even your own which is evidenced throughout the book including VM's use of the elder wand. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 23:23
  • @JMFB I doubt Dumbledore ever expected to be facing Draco in such a weakened state—that, and the second he used on petrifying Harry, was the chink in his plan. In Dumbledore’s plan, any lesser spell Draco cast would have been easily parried, but as it is, he never had the time. When they arrived at the Tower, they didn’t know whom they’d be facing; had it been the Carrows, he would obviously not have wanted to just be unarmed. The Elder Wand would not be just a stick without an owner, but it would be just a wand with no extra special powers, which were limited to its master. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 23:28
  • @JanusBahsJacquet In fact VM thought the elder wand was ownerless when he took it from DD's grave. VM being quite possibly the greatest and smartest wizard ever knew the rules of the wands. He wouldn't have broken into DD's grave and started using it if he thought it was powerless. Gregorovich didn't win the elder wand and he used it. Grindelwald stole it from Gregorovich, so he didn't win it and he used it as his wand. I'm not so sure your concept of wand lore, actual evidence from canon, or how ownership or power of the elder wand worked is quite accurate. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 23:28
  • @JMFB We don't know how Gregorovitch got the wand, but Grindelwald stunned Gregorovitch and thus won it from him. And no, Voldemort did not know all that much about wandlore—that's why he needed Ollivander to give him information. He did not know, either, that death was not needed to take over the Elder Wand: he didn't think it was ownerless when he took it; he thought its master was Snape, that's why he killed him. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 23:31
  • Or rather, when he took the wand, he didn't seem to be thinking much about allegiances and masters at all—he just wanted the Deathstick. It wasn't until he realised that it didn't work very well for him at all that he even started considering that maybe the wand's allegiance lay elsewhere. Also remember that even Ollivander (who certainly did know his wandlore) didn't know exactly how allegiance shifts worked with the Elder Wand; he only suspected that it was somehow different from other wands. Harry didn't know either: he surmised and was luckily proved right. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 23:33
  • @JanusBahsJacquet It's true that Grindelwald stunned Gregorovitch. VM knew a ton about wand lore. For example he realized that his and Harry's' wands were Priori Incantatem. He couldn't figure out why it wasn't working for him, which was why he went to Ollivander, not because he wasn't well versed in wand lore. He killed Snape because he didn't know that Draco had disarmed DD before Snape got to DD. Can you cite anything from canon for all that you claim? I've never read or seen any of the things your claiming. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 23:38
  • @JanusBahsJacquet exactly my point. He wasn't concerned about the wand being ownerless, because it didn't really matter if it was ownerless. It did matter however if it's allegiance was to somebody else. How was the elder wand different in terms of how its allegiance changed? It functioned just like every other wand in that matter. – JMFB May 14 '15 at 23:41
  • @JMFB True: whether death is necessary or not, he probably did not know that Draco had stunned Dumbledore first. But he did (erroneously) recognise when he killed Snape that it was his only way of winning the wand's allegiance. I'm currently about two thirds through re-reading Deathly Hallows. I'll write up an answer for this question once I'm through, gathering all the relevant quotes to make a more complete case. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 23:42
  • @JMFB Not quite like any other wand. Hermione didn't win the allegiance of Malfoy's wand when she punched him in the face, for example, but the examples of knifing and just overcoming in any way being enough for the Elder Wand to change its allegiance does show that it works differently. Though it's interesting why Bellatrix' wand won't work for Hermione (no defeating, no allegiance change), but members of the DA don't lose their wands' allegiances when they Expelliarmus each other in practice, either—that ought really to count as defeating, too. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '15 at 23:45
  • @JMFB I’ve added an answer now. Not all the details and thoughts included in the comments here are in it, since it was plenty long already; but there are some quotes to underpin the theory (and a few links to previous answers on this site that say more or less the same thing). – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 15 '15 at 13:24
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The loyalty of the wand did not pass to voldemort because he did not defeat Harry in the forest, In the forest voldemort wanted to kill Harry if harry had died the wand would have switched its loyalty but since harry gets resurrected the loyalty is unchanged

prashant s
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I don't beleive there is a logical explanation anyone other than JKROWLING could provide to this, none of us have studied Wandlore and it is known to be "Complex and Mysterious" according to Ollivander also we are very aware that wands have a mind of their own. From this we can only determine that the Elder Wand's allegiance must have stayed with Harry and changed from Dumbledore to Draco to Harry for some abstract reason only those who have studied Wandlore could fathom to understand, I doubt even Oliivander and Gregorovitch would have understood since the Elder Wand wasn't like any other wand.

Jonty Holtum
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