Is the Voyager episode "Threshold" considered canon?

Question

The Star Trek: Voyager episode "Threshold" is a popular target of ridicule. Its treatment of the warp scale appears to be inconsistent with the rest of the franchise, and its treatment of evolution is also inconsistent with science and common sense.

^{What? JANEWAY is evolving! JANEWAY evolved into... ???!}

I've seen many quotes from cast and crew expressing regret about that episode. However, I've also seen a more extreme claim frequently repeated online: that the episode was considered so bad, and so nonsensical, that the writers later struck it from canon altogether -- the only time that this has ever happened to a Star Trek episode.

Is there any evidence to support this claim? This could include comments from the crew, or evidence from later episodes. Also, if true, is this the only Star Trek episode that has been treated like this, or does anybody know of other episodes also be retconned out of existence?

Its treatment of the warp scale appears to be inconsistent with the rest of the franchise - It's not, actually. TNG-onwards a different scale was used where Warp 10 is a theoretical infinite speed. TOS, ENT, and flash-forwards into alternate timelines are places that don't use that scale. — Izkata, Jul 12 '14 at 03:44
"its treatment of evolution is also inconsistent with science and common sense" -- no more so than the TNG episodes "Genesis" (details at http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Genesis_(episode) ), which posits that activating some dormant genes can rapidly transform the body of an adult, and that one of Barclay's ancestors was a spider, or "The Chase" (see http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Chase_(episode) ) which posits that the evolution of humanoids is not really driven by natural selection (and that all other genetic lineages somehow "know" that they don't need to evolve into humanoids too) — Hypnosifl, Jul 12 '14 at 03:58
I always thought it was an attempt by Tom Paris to come up with an original holodeck program rather than rehashing old ones and it turned out like bad fan fiction. I wished they threw in a line by harry about it. Harry: "Remember when you tried to write that story about warp 10?" Tom: "I don't want to talk about it." Harry: "Yeah... that one got a little weird... Janeway?" Tom: "I said I don't want to talk about it." — John Meacham, Jul 12 '14 at 04:10
@Hypnosifl Distant Origin seemed to imply there was a lot of chance involved, although I don't think the ancient humanoids were explicitly referenced — Izkata, Jul 12 '14 at 04:21
@Izkata - maybe, but you could also interpret that episode to mean that whatever mysterious force had "chosen" the hadrosaurs to become humanoid out of all the lineages on Earth, it had to make a new choice when they left the Earth and all the dinosaurs went extinct. I don't see any good way to explain the vast number of lineages on Earth that don't seem to be evolving in any kind of humanoid direction--from starfish to arthropods to plants--despite the fact that they all evolved from the same "seed" cells planted by the ancients, unless there is some sort of coordinating force. — Hypnosifl, Jul 12 '14 at 04:52
Hell, I consider anything which embarrasses believes in the whole idea of "cannon" to be cannon. As always the question to the question is "Considered by whom?" and the only available answer is "By those who insist that they do the considering." Meh! — dmckee --- ex-moderator kitten, Jul 13 '14 at 05:46
@dmckee - Star Trek has official canon designation (unlike some other franchises) - though its designation is murky and untransparent compared to, say, Lucas Empire's — DVK-on-Ahch-To, Jul 14 '14 at 01:35
@JohnMeacham The *one time* that the tired, old "it was a holodeck program all along" excuse would have been a good thing... — Steve-O, Mar 01 '17 at 04:07
@Hypnosifl, you could "reasonably" posit the guidance is towards an entire biome, one member of which is humanoid, because you can't viably have only one species in a world. (Whatever reasonably means in this context. ) — ThePopMachine, Mar 01 '17 at 05:40
@Steve-O The one time? What about "Spock's Brain"? Oh, right, no holodecks yet then, so no excuse. — Basya, May 21 '19 at 11:17
These questions are funny to me, because you first have to define what canon means. It's the body of work that future writers choose to remain consistent with. So it depends on who is writing what, and whether it could possibly depend on or contradict the events of this episode. It's hard to imagine anyone writing something that depends on the events in a reviled episode, and I don't know what they would contradict since nothing of real consequence even happens. Like a lot of Trek episodes, you could remove it entirely and nothing anywhere else would have to change — Stephen Collings, Dec 22 '19 at 06:52
In my headcanon, Janeway travels to the delta quadrant to find her abandoned lizard baby, and one of them turns out to be Star Trek discovery's Linus. "Mom, I gotta warn you, bad things happen with me and transporters". "Oh yeah? Wait till you get a load of MY antics with teleporters then, Son. Ask Neelix or Tuvok!" — Shayne, Mar 09 '21 at 23:17

score 31 · Answer 1 · edited Jul 12 '14 at 05:18

It seems from the discussion here that the reason for the "removed from canon" rumor was a comment by Tom Paris in the later episode "Day of Honor" that he'd never made a transwarp voyage. However, his actual comment (from the transcript here) was "I've never navigated a transwarp conduit."

A transwarp conduit was a specific type of channel through a realm of subspace known as "transwarp space", used commonly by the Borg. In various examples of Starfleet experimenting with transwarp there is no evidence that a preexisting conduit had to be used, so it may simply have been a matter of the Borg using a different type of transwarp technology than Tom Paris used in "Threshold", and if so his later comment in "Day of Honor" wouldn't contradict his transwarp voyage in "Threshold".

Valorum · Answer 2 · 2014-07-12T06:16:06.860

14

Threshold has never been formally removed from the Star Trek canon, although it seems quite likely that those involved in the production (behind the camera) would prefer if it simply went away;

As mentioned in @hynosifl's answer, the quote from "Day of Honor" that people often point at (e.g. to suggest that the episode has been retconned out of existence) actually refers to a different technology;

PARIS: I've never navigated a transwarp conduit. Any problems I should be aware of?

That said, even the writers accept that there were many technical failings with the episode, especially in regard to how Transwarp works in the episode and the "de-evolution" of Janeway and Paris.

TNG's Producer Brannon Braga describes it thusly;

"It's a terrible episode. People are very unforgiving about that episode. I've written well over a hundred episodes of Star Trek, yet it seems to be the only episode anyone brings up, you know? 'Brannon Braga, who wrote 'Threshold'!' Out of a hundred and some episodes, you're gonna have some stinkers! Unfortunately, that was a royal, steaming stinker."

and TNG's 'Senior Technical Consultant' Rick Sternbach basically tried to handwave the whole episode away;

""I think what may have happened with the silly Warp 10 episode was that there was a coupling of the energy from the shuttle to all of the energy and matter of the universe (which might be possible if we're looking at a finite system), and the shuttle was able to access any point anywhere by some amazing tunnelling phenomenon which shrank the normal 3D distances to points, much like all the universe being squished into a pinpoint at the big bang because it was all energy with no need for elbow room. Whew."

Note that that neither of them explicitly state that it was a dream/not a real episode/non-canon.

edited Jul 12 '14 at 06:16

answered Jul 12 '14 at 06:08

Valorum

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I'm surprised Brannon Braga claims this "seems to be the only episode anyone brings up". To me his name is pretty much a guarantee of terrible writing, starting with "The eye of the beholder", towards pretty much anything he touched. – o0'. Jul 12 '14 at 18:03
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@Lohoris - Given that he wrote over 100 episodes across four series, it's a bit harsh to say that all of his episodes were poor; http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Brannon_Braga what about 'Timescape' or 'All Good Things' or 'The 37's' or 'Scorpion I, II'? – Valorum Jul 12 '14 at 18:10
IMHO: "The 37's": terrible. "Timescape": AWFUL. (Trek has never done time travel well and undoubtedly never will.) "All Good Things": barely acceptable, despite the time travel. "Scorpion I, II": It's got precognition, a weak form of time travel. That weakens the episode. It's all right -- for Voyager. Of course you didn't ask my opinion anyhow. – Ross Presser Mar 18 '16 at 05:22
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@RossPresser: "City on the Edge of Forever"? Generally regarded as one of the top 5 (if not the top) episode of all of Trek... – HeartWare Mar 18 '16 at 08:12
Time travel again. I'll give it points for being actually written by Harlan Ellison, though. Braga may claim the screenplay but it certainly wasn't his idea. – Ross Presser Mar 18 '16 at 17:22
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There are a number of good episodes in his writing credits, but I do see some definite stinkers here. Cause and Effect is one of my favorite TNG episodes. A Fistful of Datas was good. Frame of Mind was well written. Parallels was interesting. That's just in TNG. He was also one of the writers for First Contact. – DCShannon Mar 19 '16 at 01:34
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@HeartWare Um, Braga was about 2 years old when City on the Edge of Forever aired. I doubt he had much to do with it. – Organic Marble Mar 01 '17 at 11:36
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@OrganicMarble: My comment was to Ross Presser's assertion that "Trek has never done time travel well" to which I point out that (for many) the single most famous episode of all of Trek is a time travel story. My comment had nothing to do with Braga's stories - just with Ross' assertion. – HeartWare Mar 02 '17 at 13:09

Is the Voyager episode "Threshold" considered canon?

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