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There are many female characters in ASOIAF who are married but are known by their maiden name, not their husband's. Genna Lannister married a Frey, Delena Florent married a Norcross, Melessa Florent married a Tarly, and yet all of them are known by their maiden name. But then Olenna Tyrell (née Redwyne,) Lysa Arryn (née Tully) and Catelyn Stark (née Tully) all go by their marriage name. Why the inconsistency?

This question addresses the issue for Cersei specifically, and the explanation that Cersei is proud, so would refuse to take the name of a husband she despised, makes sense; but that doesn't explain why so many married women are known by their maiden names. As System Down points out on the linked thread, there is no mention of Selyse Baratheon, Margaery Baratheon, Jeyne Stark or Elia Targaryen. Why are some women known by their husband's name, and others not?

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Lou
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    Not read A Song of Ice and Fire but I'm willing to raise a possibility: those who keep their maiden names, are they part of more powerful noble houses? That is, do the women merely use the name of the more powerful family? – Mac Cooper Jul 10 '14 at 21:03
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    Yes, all of the women I've listed are part of a noble house, but I haven't picked them out based on the size of the house. ASOIAF is set in a feudal-esque society resembling medieval England, and I was under the impression that, in such a society, women took the name of their noble husbands no matter the size of strength of either House. But perhaps you're right. It's difficult to know because ASOIAF is set in an alternate universe, so of course we can't exactly model their rules on our rules. – Lou Jul 10 '14 at 21:05
  • in medieval Europe certainly, as far as I know; but Westeros isn't as you said - Martin can make innovations; but that's just my 2 cents to think about, I can offer nothing else from here :) – Mac Cooper Jul 10 '14 at 21:07
  • Names, naming conventions, and spelling were all much more fluid before the 20th century. I'm just glad GRRM didn't model Westoros on Imperial Russia! – Joe L. Jul 11 '14 at 13:27
  • @LeoKing: what Joe L. said. In medieval England, women did not necessarily take the name of their noble husbands - "medieval England" covers a very large swath of time, during which many things changed drastically, including naming conventions. – Martha Jul 11 '14 at 23:59

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Actually, in most of the cases you point out (as I explained in the linked question) the issue is that those women married someone who was either on, or in-line-for, the throne. The rules for how and when noble women take their husbands name (in the real world) get very complex when you add in royalty, but the essential point is that a woman marrying a king or prince doesn't get "added to" the line of inheritance, though her children do. So queens, princesses, etc. rarely take their husbands name. This covers Cersei (married a Baratheon king), Margaery (married three Baratheon kings), Selyse (married a Baratheon "prince"), Jeyne (married a Stark king), and Elia (married a Targaryen Prince).

In the other cases you mentioned, it's not nearly as clear why the woman didn't take her husbands name when she married, but note that taking the name of her husband is supposed to be a privilege the woman gets to have as part of her marriage. Marriage is the primary means for a lesser house to raise its social and political status. Thus, it makes sense for a Tully marrying a Stark or Arryn to take the Stark/Arryn name (all three are Great Houses, but the Starks and Arryns are also the Wardens of the North/East).

On the other hand, it's hard to find a noble house that has higher status than the Lannisters. Genna, and more importantly, the men in her family, may actually prefer to keep using her maiden name, rather than call her a Frey, because they may see it as a step down in status.

Ultimately, as I also mentioned in the linked question, Martin simply hasn't told us how the names are picked, and as best as I recall, none of the "exception cases" have ever explicitly been called out. Thus, the best we can do is guess that it's personal preference on part of the women (or, more likely in Westerosi society, her father) which name she goes by after marriage.

KutuluMike
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  • Okay. Do you have any ideas about the Freys themselves? Kyra Frey, for example, marries Ser Garse Goodbrook; Lythene Frey marries Lord Lucias Vypren; her daughter Elyana Vypren marries Ser Jon Wylde; but all of them are listed by maiden names in AWOIAF. – Lou Jul 10 '14 at 21:25
  • As you point out, they're a house of low status, referred to as "upstarts" by Catelyn; if they could, I imagine the Frey girls would have wanted to take the names of presumably older and nobler houses. – Lou Jul 10 '14 at 21:26
  • What do you mean? Edmure survives. I'm not really sure if the Freys consider the marriage pact intact though. A little like murdering your best friend's family and beating the crap out of them and saying "...But we're still friends, right?" – Lou Jul 10 '14 at 21:37
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    yeah, oops, I thought he was killed, but he was taken prisoner. Probably same effect, though, as you pointed out. Also, as far as the wiki is concerned, it always refers to women by their maiden names; e.g. it always refers to Cat as "Catelyn Tully" even on the same page that it quotes someone calling her "Catelyn Stark". I'd need to look up their mentions in the novels to see more. – KutuluMike Jul 10 '14 at 21:42
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    I will point out, though, that the Freys don't consider themselves a low-status house. Though they were technically Tully bannermen, Walder Frey considers his position as "Lord of the Crossing" to be legitimate (or else, Edumure could have just ordered him to let the Starks cross). He may sincerely consider the Goodbrooks and Vyprens beneath him, I'm not really clear. – KutuluMike Jul 10 '14 at 21:46
  • Well, he's certainly aware that other houses look down on the Freys - I can't find the exact quotation, but I remember that Catelyn said to Robb words to the effect of: Lord Walder has always resented the fact that other houses look down on the Freys as upstarts, as a relatively new house. – Lou Jul 10 '14 at 21:50
  • I would have thought it was self-evident that House Frey was superior to either the Goldbrooks or Vyprens - the Goldbrooks don't even have an entry on the awoiaf wiki. Just look at the fact that Lord Frey can put 1000 knights and 3000 foot soldiers in the field, those are not inconsiderable numbers. He also exerts a great deal of influence due to the strategic position of the Twins which is a vital transport link (we see this in the deal Catelyn makes with Lord Walder on Robb's behalf), and being Lord of the Crossing has made his house very wealthy. – The Giant of Lannister Jul 12 '14 at 17:22
  • In my view Catelyn's description of the Freys as "upstarts" should be viewed only in the context of how her own family's House the Tullys view House Frey - so of course she sees them as upstarts, they are one of House Tully's more troublesome Bannermen! – The Giant of Lannister Jul 12 '14 at 17:29
  • They don't have an entry on AWOIAF because you misspelled it ;). – Lou Jul 13 '14 at 13:04
  • The reason House Frey are considered a lesser house by some is because they're only 600 years old, as opposed to the Starks, for example, which are at least 8,000 years old. The Goodbrooks and Vyprens presumably go further back than the Freys, anyway. – Lou Jul 13 '14 at 13:08
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Norcross, Florent and Tarly are all Noble houses in the Reach and those women are known by their maiden names out of habit.

Genna Lannister may be known by her maiden name due to the large number of Freys.

The Tullys married men from different kingdoms to their own so wouldn't have been known in the area.

Lou
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