I remember from the Matrix that if you die in the Matrix, you actually die in real life. Why is this the case? I know there is a quote made by Morpheus that the body cannot live without the mind, but I don't understand the mechanism behind the actual physical trauma from what is essentially a video game. Why are actual injuries sustained from digital injuries?
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1Possible duplicate? What happens to a person after they die in the Matrix? – DavidW Nov 16 '22 at 21:29
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@DavidW I don't think so, I am asking why they die in the first place – Nov 16 '22 at 21:30
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I don't understand the mechanism behind the body actually being injured. It looks like they are having a seizure, not just becoming an empty husk – Nov 16 '22 at 21:32
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2I suppose you could assume the implanted connection jacks are more like defibrillators for Matrix trauma. But that's entirely something I just made up. Any system that causes instant brain death if it is merely improperly turned off is kind of a trope of the genre and extremely unlikely to ever be an actual effect of a real brain computer connection. – lucasbachmann Nov 17 '22 at 03:31
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1“what is essentially a video game” — sure, being physically plugged into a system that replaces all perception with an entire simulated reality is just like wearing an Oculus Rift. – Paul D. Waite Nov 17 '22 at 16:57
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@PaulD.Waite why shouldn't it be? Either way, you're just stimulating neurons, whether it be through implanted electrodes or via receptor cells in sense organs. A properly designed neural interface shouldn't be any more capable of causing harm than a projector in front of the eyes. – Christopher James Huff Nov 18 '22 at 19:11
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@ChristopherJamesHuff Sure! Neurobiology is definitely advanced enough to be confident about that. – Paul D. Waite Nov 18 '22 at 19:24
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@PaulD.Waite considering that there wouldn't be neurobiology if it weren't true...yes, it definitely is. – Christopher James Huff Nov 18 '22 at 21:06
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Why would they not? – Robbie Goodwin Nov 19 '22 at 20:23
3 Answers
The quote from Morpheus you are thinking of comes from Neo's failure in the jump program (during which he sustains a minor injury in both the simulation and the real world):
Neo: I thought it wasn’t real.
Morpheus: Your mind makes it real.
Neo: If you’re killed in the Matrix, you die here?
Morpheus: The body cannot live without the mind.
The idea is that the simulation seems so realistic that the mind is convinced that the person has been injured / killed, and so the mind "makes [the injury] real".1 If the mind believes the person has been killed then it will no longer control the body to sustain the functions necessary for life, resulting in actual death of the body ("the body cannot live without the mind").
Even Zion operatives' minds can be tricked into thinking the injury is real during such trauma by the hyper-realism of the simulation, even though they know it isn't real. Only the One is capable of such a total rejection of the simulation necessary to reject the belief that a simulated death is real (and thus survive).
1 Exactly how the injury becomes real in the real world (e.g., how the mind can create a bullet wound in the real world based on its belief of such a wound in the simulation) is hand-waved by the film. There is no additional explanation by the film since there is no known mechanism how that could really happen. It therefore requires some suspension of disbelief.
The film's explanation would be more plausible if the characters weren't shown with actual wounds in the real world (i.e., the mind simply shut down upon believing it was mortally wounded, leaving the body to slowly die). However, this would be very difficult to convey in a movie so it's a sensible strategy by the filmmakers to depict actual wounds in the real world.
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11To be fair I don't think the Matrix depicted actual bullet wounds on the real bodies. Just the extreme exaggeration hypnosis trope versions of skin welts and bruises. – lucasbachmann Nov 17 '22 at 03:25
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24This all presupposes that what Neo et al consider to be the 'real world' is in fact the real world, and not just one layer up in the Matrix stack. Given the number of other instances of stuff happening in the 'real world' that shouldn't/couldn't, there's strong implication that Matrix emergees don't really ever truly emerge at all. – Eight-Bit Guru Nov 17 '22 at 09:38
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3@Eight-BitGuru it also implies that the simulation is exactly like the real world, for all we know, the simulation could be removing bit and pieces of real world physics that make this possible in the real world, but not in the matrix, whose physics is reduced and similar to our own – DrakaSAN Nov 17 '22 at 09:53
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2@DrakaSAN And don't forget that it's tacitly implied that our universe is a virtual reality too. For all we know, the real world doesn't run on thermodynamics :D – Luaan Nov 17 '22 at 11:32
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6@Eight-BitGuru There are numerous problems with the "Matrix-within-a-Matrix" theory. It is good to ponder the possibility, but that doesn't seem consistent with known facts from the films. – Null Nov 17 '22 at 14:32
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@Eight-BitGuru That is what I believe is the case considering all the powers that Neo gets in the "real world" in the later movies. It is just another layer to help control the people that have issues in the deeper layer. This also explains how they are able to keep setting up the resistance city after each time it is destroyed. – Joe W Nov 17 '22 at 15:28
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2@JoeW Most of the real-world powers that Neo gets can be explained by the fact that the original idea was that the Machines were using human brains as processors, rather than using their bodies as power generators. The concept makes much more sense (humans are way more efficient as compute units than as thermal heat generators) but was changed because it was deemed too difficult for audiences to understand. If the Machines run on human brains it's not unreasonable to suggest that the One could use the leftover hardware in their brain to hack nearby networks and control, say, Sentinels. – anaximander Nov 17 '22 at 17:12
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@anaximander: I have heard that theory many times. It's a good theory. I want to believe it. But I have never seen any actual evidence for it, no matter who I ask, nor how many times. Why do you believe it? Have you seen any evidence you can share? – wnoise Nov 17 '22 at 18:20
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1There is something similar in the real world: psychosomatic disorders. In some sense it says that states of mind can cause pain, or even lead, in the long term, to physical effects and alterations. Btw, I like the brain theory by @anaximander. – StefanH Nov 17 '22 at 18:47
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@Null: It's almost like the matrix within a matrix is the older version of the plot and some things survived from it after rewrites. – Joshua Nov 17 '22 at 19:35
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@wnoise The idea is from the short story Goliath from the Matrix Comics series. – Null Nov 17 '22 at 20:28
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The movie has a strong "mind over matter" theme, which resonates with a lot of 90s-brand postmodernism. "It's true if you believe it to be" - that type of thing. I'm not sure this would have required much suspension of disbelief for the majority of viewers at the time. – Nacht Nov 17 '22 at 22:56
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It's essentially the nocebo effect taken to its extreme. Your brain can in fact harm your health based on its expectations. – Matthew Read Nov 18 '22 at 03:16
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No matter what hardware Neo has in his brain, if it's not designed for wireless connections, it can't do that. Machines are rational, they wouldn't bother with the cables in humans if wireless connection capabilities were already present. If Neo can develop a wireless transmitter in his brain out of nowhere, that defies all laws of physics. I've already been told about Goliath, and in there the human also has to plug into the ship physically. The arguments against the second layer of Matrix are rather weak, and that's not the top-voted answer in the linked question either, by the way. – Malcolm May 26 '23 at 10:24
Zion is just another Matrix
There are a lot of evidence behind this. There is the thermodynamically impossible "humans produce power", the ability of Neo in the films to modify the real world, and the ability for Smith to infect humans in the real world.
Even the description of where Zion is -- 4 km down -- is also implausible.
And, wounds carrying over from the Matrix to the world of Zion.
All we have is the words of programs
Those programs could be lied to as well, not even know the truth.
Create an imperfect "90s" matrix, wrap it in a (physically) worse world, have people get out of the first and emerge into the second "Zion" matrix. They can struggle and feel their lives have meaning without having everything handed to them in a paradise.
How far up the "real" world is unclear
Possibly the machines did fight a war with humanity and won. But instead of some kind of silly "humans as batteries", they just uploaded copies of humans to a simulation. Or they modified human brains to run software on it, and stuck them hallucinating of a fake world while the rest of their brains acted as computation aids.
Death in the Matrix leads to wounds in Zion
The 90s and Zion matrixes exist to keep your conscious mind busy. If they stuck humans into a featureless void, a paradise, or one where nothing mattered, they'd go insane. So when the human is convinced they die, they can't maintain the illusion any more.
Despite this, the virtual world matters
With no access to anything about the Zion level, what happens in this virual world matters. Cypher is right, in that a universe where you can love and sense and exist is a real world, even if there is another layer above it.
Becoming aware of Zion makes it matter as much as the 90s Matrix, if not more. Being unable to reach any higher levels makes them in a sense irrelevant, even if they have complete control over what happens at Zion and 90s Matrix levels.
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4The 'matrix-within-a-matrix' fan-theory has been pretty comprehensively debunked, not least because it would mean that the entire film series was completely and utterly pointless, and what director/s would do that to their heroes? – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 23:05
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There are a lot of evidence behind this.The "lot of evidence" usually falls in one of two categories (sometimes both): "everything we (the viewers) are shown and told in the movie is a lie" and "things that happen in the movie are implausible/impossible as per the laws of physics". Also both categories require us to selectively believe or not in in-universe events and explanations and, while the movie does leave a lot of things open for interpretation, they'te more related to what the simbolisms MEAN to us and not to what is true and what is a lie. – Josh Part Nov 17 '22 at 23:11 -
2@JoshPart - Precisely so. The MWAM theory is compelling because it neatly explains a fair few things that aren't explained to us, but it falls down on several key elements, notably that the Zionese rebels can instantly tell that they're inside the Matrix. If Zion was such a realistic scenario, why wouldn't the Machines just have everyone in that instead? – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 23:46
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7@Valorum "it would mean that the entire film series was completely and utterly pointless". It's a movie series, not a religion. – RonJohn Nov 18 '22 at 00:11
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@RonJohn - It would mean that the events of the film were without consequence. Neo isn't risking anything if we pan out to see that it was all a dream – Valorum Nov 18 '22 at 00:23
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@Valorum good point. (As an aside, this is why I’m not a Fan of anything. I just watch the movie and enjoy…) – RonJohn Nov 18 '22 at 00:40
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At the very end of the second movie, Neo deactivates some of those flying squid machines by "magic" that shouldn't work outside the Matrix -- signaling to the audience that there was another layer of simulation and we would learn about it in the third movie. MWAM is the only theory that explains this. Since the third movie turned out to be awful and makes no sense anyway, I say we are free to ignore it. – workerjoe Nov 18 '22 at 14:40
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@workerjoe MWAM is not the only theory that explains it. In another answer I wrote an alternate explanation which does not require MWAM and explains the numerous problems with the MWAM theory. – Null Nov 18 '22 at 15:37
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@Valorum I cover the fact that what happens in a virtual world still matters explicitly above. They even cover the issue in the Matrix movie -- Cypher's betrayal is based on that. They talk about it explicitly in the movie; only the awareness of the Zion layer makes 90s Matrix matter less! – Yakk Nov 18 '22 at 15:52
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1@JoshPart (a) The premise why the machines make the matrix is patent nonsense. It is clear the humans don't know the truth. (b) every outside-of-matrix magic moment means that the outside of the matrix laws of physics are not ours. This could be because we (real world) are in the matrix-physics (without exploits), and outside of it magic stuff (like humans as battaries, EM works differently, etc) works, but that is not what the Zion/Matrix duality implied before that reveal. It isn't conclusive, but it wins Occam's razor. – Yakk Nov 18 '22 at 15:56
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@Null frankly, I think "Neo's headjack has secret wireless capabilities that are never hinted before/discussed after" is less explainable than the problems you list with MWAM but at this point I've accepted there's serious issues either way.... – mbrig Nov 18 '22 at 16:48
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1@Yakk - Hmm. Let's apply Occam's razor here. Every single in and out-of-universe source tells us that Zion is real. The cast and crew refer to Zion as "the real world" and multiple in-universe sources tell us that once you're aware of the Matrix being unreal, you can instantly and immediately detect that you're in a computer program *vs. some fans made up some stuff.* – Valorum Nov 18 '22 at 17:58
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@Valorum Except if Zion is real, you have to solve (how do humans produce power), (how does Matrix-magic work in the real world) (how do wounds in the matrix magically appear outside of it) etc. It requires no new technology and simplifies a bunch of contradictions with 1 simple additional step. Thematically, it even fits. Explaining "how do humans produce useful power" itself without the Zion-as-matrix requires new physics, or that the humans knowledge is completely wrong. The wounds similarly; sudden bleeding from thinking you are hurt? Really? – Yakk Nov 18 '22 at 19:12
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Zion-as-matrix requires they built a meta-matrix to capture people who rejected layer 1. It was harsher, which is consistent with the machines descriptions of problems with their Eden matrix. It does require the machines to have fooled themselves (ie, every machine you meet is trapped in the meta-matrix), but that is a reasonable security plan. It then explains all of the strange physics of Zion's world. And it seems a far more plausible plan for machines than "I know, we'll build a fake real-world city" -- why? Just make that fake city in a Zion matrix, less bother. – Yakk Nov 18 '22 at 19:18
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@Yakk - This is explained in the movie. The humans aren't generating power, they're catalysing a form of fusion. An earlier version of the original script has a little more info about what the Wachowskis had in mind - "MORPHEUS: They discovered a new form of fusion. All that was required to initiate the reaction was a small electric charge. Throughout human history we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." – Valorum Nov 18 '22 at 19:20
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@Valorum "the Zionese rebels can instantly tell that they're inside the Matrix": they think they can. The whole sensation of unreality they feel could well be a deliberate feature to make the "outer" Matrix more convincing. – Christopher James Huff Nov 18 '22 at 19:20
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1@Valorum Humans are not an efficient source of anything like a "small electric charge". The idea of using humans as spark plugs or power sources is ridiculous; it can be explained away many ways (the easiest is "the machines actually use human neural tissue to compute, and don't let each other know because of anti-human bias"), but it DOES have to be explained. I'm aware of zero explanations for it that don't require other explanations for yet other things (wounds from being damaged in the matrix, and Neo's magic abilities outside of matrix). Hence, Occam. – Yakk Nov 18 '22 at 19:30
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1A power source as ubiquitous as the Sun would not be humans, it would be fissile elements from the crust, which contains absurd quantities of potential energy. Most of the explanations and actions given for the real world make no sense. Even if there was some magic way to extract positive energy from human farms, you don't have to give them a massive energy consuming simulated matrix to keep them happy, just lobotomize them. If you're going to forcibly eject someone from the matrix, why not spend literally one second killing them instead of just flushing them and hoping? – Steven Armstrong Nov 20 '22 at 01:49
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@Yakk
The idea of using humans as spark plugs or power sources is ridiculous; it can be explained away many ways... but it DOES have to be explainedyet for some reason you keep talking about a theory that has no mention, no explanation and no indication within the movies, and the only foundation this theory has is that it "fills the gaps" left by the in-universe explanations. All this debate is suspension of disbelief and accepting writers are not perfect and made some stuff that doesn't fully make sense to allow the movie to be cool vs a theory that goes around everything the movies tell – Josh Part Nov 22 '22 at 18:14 -
1@JoshPart I mean, I saw indications all over the place. Every time the Zion reality didn't make sense? Cypher's virtue of ignorance? The philosophical brain in a box, which implies recursion? The sudden appearance of matrix-vision overlay on the Zion layer? Matrix-magic in Zion layer? It wasn't "yes, this is another layer of the Matrix" said literally, but it didn't seem subtle to me. – Yakk Nov 22 '22 at 19:27
If you just want a plausible in-universe theory to help with the suspension of disbelief, then you just need to consider the implications of the fact that all the in-body electronic-neural hardware was designed and installed by the machines as part of the normal interface to the matrix. Obviously, it would give the game away if somebody died in the Matrix and didn't die in reality. (Either they woke up still in the Matrix, or woke to reality.) Naturally, the hardware/software they built into the body would have to include a set of 'kill' signals so that when you die in the Matrix, the body will also be killed and marked for disposal/recycling.
But it's still software and data controlling it. So if you can perceive and control the low-level interfaces to the Matrix, you could also perceive and manipulate the kill switch.
However, there is no point in taking things too literally with this film, because everything in it is really meant to be interpreted symbolically and allegorically. The writers would always prioritise the philosophical message over realism. The Matrix is an allegory for the psychological mechanisms by which society enforces conformity to its rules. We obey the rules out of fear of 'what society would think'. This fear/stress can be so intense that it makes us genuinely ill, and can even drive people to suicide. It becomes a 'prison for our minds' built from our belief in the inviolability of the rules of society, that despite being a purely mental thing of ideas and beliefs, nevertheless has physical consequences for our health because of the strength of those beliefs.
This whole plotline arises out of the Wachowskis' experiences as transgender people growing up in an era when gender nonconformity wasn't acceptable in society. If you was born a boy, you had to act the way society thought boys should act, or else. The psychological impact of the bullying that would be applied to anyone who didn't conform was horrifying. Most hid what they were, living their lives in continual terror of discovery. Those who got exposed could lose their jobs, their families, their freedom, or even their lives. (Alan Turing's case is probably the most famous example, but far from the worst that happened. Hundreds experienced 'aversion therapy' which amounted to torture in an attempt to 'cure' them. Thousands more committed suicide.) But society only had that power over you because you yourself believed in it. If you had the sheer strength of will to not care what anyone else thought, you could bend or even break the rules. They thought that if by your example you could teach enough other people not to care too, you could overthrow the system.
Although the Wachowskis had reason to be thinking of the gender rules in particular, the phenomenon is much more general than that. 'Morality police' and 'political correctness' of one sort or another have always been part of human nature, and still are. As one set of rules about what you are 'allowed' to say or do or believe are overthrown, a new set arises to replace them. We can change the rules, but we can't seem to get rid of the idea of having rules. So as one instance of the Matrix breaks down, it is immediately replaced by another generation.
Hence, the (allegorical) reason people die in real life from digital trauma in the Matrix is the same reason that people die in real life from the social trauma of having been caught in public violating society's moral rules. Their own residual belief in the validity of the rules and the absolute necessity of society's approval makes it happen.
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4Hi, welcome to SF&F. You posit a mechanism - an implanted kill switch - but you don't provide any evidence for it, and then you divert into a long tangent that doesn't really support that answer. (If anything it seems more to support the "your mind makes it real" idea.) You should focus on a single answer and work to provide support for it from details revealed in the movie(s) and quotes from the creators. You might want to read [answer]. – DavidW Nov 17 '22 at 16:20
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The evidence for it is that it can't work any other way. The implanted hardware is obviously the standard interface to the Matrix. The standard interface obviously has to kill anyone in actuality who dies in the Matrix, or it would give the game away. As other people have rightly said, the films don't discuss it. And as is well known from interviews with the Wachowskis, the Matrix films were never intended as hard sci-fi, but social allegory. Trying to figure out a technical answer here is like asking how Gandalf's magic fire worked. The real answer to the question is the allegorical one. – Nullius in Verba Nov 17 '22 at 16:33
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2This seems like headcanon / fan-fiction. You've suggested a mechanism, but offered zero evidence this is the mechanism – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 17:18
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The evidence is that there obviously has to be such a mechanism built in to the standard interface, or people still plugged in to the Matrix who died wouldn't die. I'm not arguing from citations, I'm arguing from logic. But more importantly, I'm arguing that seeking such mechanisms misses the entire point of the film, which is that it's not a story about a future scientific/technological possibility, but a social allegory. Morpheus's explanations point to the philosophy. If you insist on a physics explanation, there's one readily available, but it's not what the film was about. – Nullius in Verba Nov 17 '22 at 17:36
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OP isn't looking for a logical explanation based on internet guessing, they're looking for the explanation that the makers of the film actually had in mind. Your answer makes perfect sense, sure, but there's not a jot of evidence that this is what the Wachowskis had in mind. – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 20:10
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@Valorum This reminds me of the English Lit assignment where one student actually contacted the author of the piece being assigned meaning and discovered that the author actually had no such ideas in mind as the teacher and class were entertaining and was somewhat taken aback by it. I suppose only actual quotes from the author on what they had in mind is really foolproof, but most of the time we don't have that and lacking that it seems like what can be considered "evidence" is a bit too subjective for my liking... – Andy Nov 17 '22 at 22:11
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And as a result there seem to me at least to be many questions on this site which it's somewhat questionable whether they can really have objective answers. (short of tracking down the author and asking them... and then there's always the "unreliable narrator problem") – Andy Nov 17 '22 at 22:11
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@Andy - Getting a word-of-god response would make for a fantastic answer and has happened on numerous occasions. That being said, good luck getting the Wachowskis to give you a straight answer on this one. They refused all but the contractual interviews to promote the film and wouldn't do a director's commentary even for the 10 disc special edition. – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 23:00
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1@Andy - The issue is that some people feel like they can answer any which way they like because they can't find a good answer from the horse's mouth. It would honestly be better to say "I've looked and I can't find anything" in a comment than post a poor guesswork answer – Valorum Nov 17 '22 at 23:01
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@NulliusinVerba "The standard interface obviously has to kill anyone in actuality who dies in the Matrix" → No, why would it have to? It just has to wipe their memories and create a new character for them. This was in fact part of the deal between Cypher and Smith: "I don't want to remember nothing. Nothing. You understand? And I want to be rich. You know, someone important, like an actor." No reason whatsoever for the machines to dispose of a perfectly functioning human body just because its brain thinks it's dead; they can just reset it and keep using it until it actually dies of old age. – walen Nov 18 '22 at 09:49