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My memory must be playing tricks on me. In the Goblet of Fire film, I distinctly recall Wormtail killing Cedric. However, I also recall that very film claiming that "Cedric Diggory was murdered by Voldemort" (Dumbledore) and I remember a scene in the next film where Harry says something like "Cedric was good, but Voldemort was better" to Chou Chang.

This then gives me my questions:

  1. In the films, did Voldemort kill Cedric?
  2. If Voldemort did not kill Cedric in the films, why does the dialogue act as if he did?
  3. Were things different in the books?
J. Mini
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    Very related, possible dupe. – TheLethalCarrot Jul 06 '21 at 17:00
  • @TheLethalCarrot Close, but the second quote of mine is from Harry rather than specifically Dumbledore. – J. Mini Jul 06 '21 at 17:01
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    Cedric was killed at the hands of W and by the word of V. Both are guilty. – Mirko Jul 06 '21 at 17:44
  • The script is extremely clear that Wormtail killed Cedric at Voldemort's order (https://www.scriptslug.com/assets/uploads/scripts/harry-potter-and-the-goblet-of-fire-2005.pdf - Scene 99) – Valorum Jul 06 '21 at 18:42
  • Wormtail didn’t kill him either, the jet of green light did. If we can nonetheless attribute it to Wormtail since he caused the jet of green light, why shouldn’t we also attribute it to Voldemort, since he caused Wormtail to cause the jet of green light? – Alex Jul 06 '21 at 19:06
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    @Alex Surely with that reasoning you can attribute Cedric's death to Voldemort's mother, who brought about Voldemort's birth and caused him to exist? Or attribute it to Voldemort's grandparents, who caused his mother who then caused him who then caused Wormtail who then caused the jet of green light? Where do you stop with this sort of reasoning 'Wormtail didn't kill him either, the jet of green light did'? – Ongo Jul 06 '21 at 21:19
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    @Ongo Giving an order to kill is directly contributory to the killing. Giving birth is not. Perhaps a closer parallel would be if his mother taught him that killing was okay. – Alex Jul 06 '21 at 22:13
  • @Alex I do agree with you in that they're certainly both accountable for Cedric's death, I just don't think the reasoning that it was the spell that killed him is a good argument to support the chain of accountability leading back from Wormtail to Voldy. If you can attribute guilt to the spell, which I think is an independent factor - it does as it has to regardless of intent and therefore lacks accountability - then it opens up to attributing guilt to other independent factors. – Ongo Jul 06 '21 at 22:40
  • I don't think it's about guilt per se, which would not be applicable to an inanimate object. My point is more that if we are willing to attribute a murder to something other than the most final cause, we don't have to stop at the second most final cause. – Alex Jul 07 '21 at 01:52
  • @Alex 'We don't have to stop at the second most final cause' is where I feel the argument falls down, refer to my first comment re: where does the chain of accountability stop? The third most final? Fourth? Tenth? The person who invented Avada Kedavra? Is Cedric to blame for his own death by being skilled enough to have reached the cup? I think we'd probably both agree I'm using hyperbole there, but with respect I just don't think extending beyond W, V, their motives, and their actions, i.e it was actually the spell that killed him, is useful or needed to charge them both with C's death. – Ongo Jul 07 '21 at 10:01
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    In the real world, ordering an underling to commit murder can make one legally guilty of murder as well. When people say Hitler killed millions of people, they don't mean that he did it personally. – Adamant Jul 07 '21 at 10:39
  • Just to be clear I do agree both Wormtail and Voldemort are guilty here, I just don't think that extending beyond the pulled trigger or before the given order are a good way to establish that guilt, as it opens up the chain of accountability beyond the pulled trigger and given order which doesn't help answer 'who killed Cedric?'. We can't put the spell on trial anymore than we can Voldemort's mother, even though both can be argued to be on either side of the chain of cause and effect leading to Cedric's death. – Ongo Jul 07 '21 at 11:25

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