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In season 1 of The Good Place, during the welcoming session for the newcomers to the Good Place which is hosted by Michael, a set of actions during their lives on Earth and their scores are displayed on a virtual screen.

The ones with a total positive score are selected for the Good Place. Good deeds are rewarded with positive points while bad deeds/sins are punished with negative points.

Among the sins are Use the term 'Bro-Code' and Tell a woman to 'smile', with scores of -8.20 and -53.83 respectively. Why are they categorized as sins?

Paul D. Waite
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Sandun
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    Keep in mind that things like "being French" and other "joke" sins are also on the list. That said, it's clearly because these are both examples of low-level sexism. – Adamant Apr 28 '21 at 05:06
  • @Adamant I don't recall seeing "being French" in that tutorial, but perhaps I might have missed that. Can you please explain how the above ones qualify as 'low-level sexism'? – Sandun Apr 28 '21 at 05:08
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    That's kind of getting away from science fiction and fantasy. The "bro code" encourages prioritizing one's male friends over one's female romantic partners and adhering to stereotyped societal gender roles, while telling a woman to smile is typically motivated by the idea that her appearance is more important than her feelings. For the purposes of the show, what matters is that Michael Schur agrees with these ideas, or at least that he thought it would be funny to reference them. – Adamant Apr 28 '21 at 05:11
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  • @Robert Thanks but it doesn’t answer my question. That question is about ‘eating a sandwich and the point system’. My question is about why the above particular deeds are considered sins. – Sandun Apr 28 '21 at 15:54
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    Are you asking why Telling a woman to 'smile' can be an issue or specifically why the script writers/producers included them? (Other than just accepted standards in society) – Lio Elbammalf Apr 28 '21 at 16:50
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    @sand the answer is the same though. The point system is nonsensical for a specific reason. – Robert Columbia Apr 28 '21 at 22:30
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    @RobertColumbia - Under the circumstances, I think that should be duped to this, not the other way around. – Valorum Apr 30 '21 at 09:59
  • @RobertColumbia Are you implying none of them are actually good or bad deeds? – Sandun Jul 06 '21 at 10:44
  • @Sandun not quite. There is a major spoiler that you may not have gotten to yet. It will put the point system in a different perspective. – Robert Columbia Jul 06 '21 at 10:48

2 Answers2

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The points system was discussed in considerable detail in the show and in interviews that accompanied it. Chidi would be happy to note that the outcomes and points are based on a strictly Utilitarian outcome, where things that cause happiness are given positive scores and things that result in net unhappiness are given negative scores. Notably, this can mean that the same action can result in wildly differing scores depending on the outcome over time.

Evidently using the term "bro-code" and telling a woman to smile are things that are likely to result in net unhappiness. As to why, it's likely because the people who wrote the show think that the people who do these things are using sexist tropes that negatively impact on individuals or society in general.

In the original pilot script, the system was explained in even more depth. Point totals were based not just on the inherent benevolence or malevolence of the act, but how it ultimately impacted other people. And they weren’t static. “Let’s say you read a magazine and you see an ad for something and you’re in a doctor’s office and you tear out the ad and you toss the magazine back on the bench,” says Schur. “Maybe the thing you tore out the ad for is a kind of medicine that could help your allergies, right? So you get plus two points for that because you’re trying to help yourself have a healthier life, but negative one point for ripping out a page out of something that wasn’t yours. Someone who suffers from allergies comes along and they’re flipping through that magazine, and if they had seen that ad, they might have done it. Also, their whole family suffers from allergies, so they could have used that ad to buy medicine for their whole family. Suddenly what was one fixed negative point at the moment you did it now is negative 13. The idea is the point values are constantly changing and shifting, depending on the kind of ultimate ripple of whatever you did and how it ripples through the rest of society.”

Schur initially planned to have Michael walk newcomers through various scenarios in the orientation video instead of displaying the graphic. “He said, ‘Save a child from getting hit by a car. Great job. That’s plus 4,000 points,'” recalls Schur. “And you actually saw that happen. And then he said, ‘Poison a river with dirty chemicals. Uh-oh, that’s negative 9,610.’ And then he said, ‘But it’s not just the big stuff.’ He went through that argument and laid that out. But it just took too long, so we came up with this idea of having those things appear on the screen as a much clearer and ultimately funnier way. It explains the premise. Once we had that idea, there were a ton of jokes.”

Good ones, too. For example: Eating vegan earns you +425.94 points, but never discussing your veganism unprompted earns you a whopping +9875.37. “If you just eat vegan, that’s just a personal thing that you’re doing,” reasons Schur. “That’s just a choice that you’re making about the kind of food you want and where it’s sustainably sourced. But the reason we decided that never discussing your veganism unprompted was way better is because people who proselytize about personal choices are often the most annoying people. The people who tell other people, ‘I do this and it’s great that I do this and everybody should do this,’ and if you don’t do this, the implication is you are a bad person, you get far more negative points for that kind of negative action than you do doing something that is an internal choice: ‘This is the way I’m going to live my life.’ And a lot of the ways that we calculated the points had to do with the concept of rippling out. Imposing your value system on someone else is a worse thing to do than just doing something that’s like, ‘I’m pretty good.’ It’s pretty good that you’re vegan, it’s good for the environment and you’re not killing animals, so that’s good in the long-term. But the worse crime than eating meat would be lecturing on other people on why what you do is better than what they do.

The Good Place: Inside the point system that determines your afterlife status

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Valorum
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    The most salient point here being "Once we had that idea, there were a ton of jokes." – Robert Harvey Apr 28 '21 at 14:21
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    Definitely telling women to smile is widely considered a micro-aggression these days. I think the bro code is more associated with toxic masculinity, and when it’s stated “bros before hoes”, it’s easy to see why. My comment is really about how it would be nice if this answer put a finer point on it instead of merely talking about what the writers think. The writers are not in a vacuum. Much of the culture at large has moved away from such machismo that is subtly denigrating and/or objectifying to women. – Todd Wilcox Apr 28 '21 at 14:29
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    Is there a meta issue here -- how many points should the writers lose for assigning points to other people's behavior? – Barmar Apr 29 '21 at 12:57
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    So... eh... a serial killer that happened to kill the toddler that would otherwise have grown up to be the fool who accidentally caused the death of far more people ends up in the green? Interesting. – Jasper Apr 29 '21 at 18:43
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    @Jasper - Yes. In a strictly utilitarian universe (one with perfect oversight of the net effects of actions), there's nothing that's objectively good or evil, merely things that are likely to lead to net happiness or sadness. – Valorum Apr 29 '21 at 18:55
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    @Jasper this is typically one of the criticism that the show brings to utilitarianism, (see the part about eating a particular burger being tied to favoring homophobia), which leads to discussions about how Motive Consequentialism might be more relevant in a complex society where full consequences are impossibly to grasp. – njzk2 Apr 29 '21 at 20:33
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    Just to state the obvious: the show's ethical system is completely absurd and doesn't match any noteworthy philosophical position, but rather is a mishmash of random ethical ideas sorta just randomly thrown together for comedy. – Nat Apr 30 '21 at 09:56
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    @Barmar that meta issue is explored in the show – Carl Kevinson Apr 30 '21 at 15:27
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    "the outcomes and points are based on a strictly Utilitarian outcome" Except that the motive is taken into account when assigning points. – Acccumulation Apr 30 '21 at 21:01
  • @njzk2 That criticism fails to differentiate between rule utilitarianism and act utilitarianism. – forest May 01 '21 at 00:18
  • @forest I'd say that in that case, act utilitarianism is implied. "Kill toddlers" is hardly a rule that would work for any rule utilitarianism system – njzk2 May 01 '21 at 19:45
  • @njzk2 But saying utilitarianism has no fundamental problem with killing toddlers if it's for the greater good is misrepresenting utilitarianism. – forest May 01 '21 at 21:30
  • @njzk2 - The Spartans wouldn't agree with you on that one. They were quite keen on murdering toddlers (for the greater good). – Valorum May 01 '21 at 21:57
  • @forest utilitarianism itself doesn't define "greater good", so any implementation of it needs to define it itself. I agree that by most definition (Spartans are an anecdotal exception, not a proof) that wouldn't be included, but there are a few thought experiments that explore the limits of utilitarianism in terms of sacrificing 1 individual to save others. (The tramway is the basic example, although it is often used to question individual responsibility, it can also be used to question utilitarianism, with lots of variations) – njzk2 May 02 '21 at 11:56
  • @njzk2 But it does. It defines it as increasing utility. Exactly what constitutes utility (e.g. hedonic, lack of suffering, or whatever) isn't entirely clear, but it does distance itself from, say, virtue ethics where "greater good" could be the acquisition of some virtue. – forest May 03 '21 at 01:02
  • @forest I agree. My point is precisely that "utility" isn't entirely clear. Some definitions of that utility, for example "Longer healthy life for most" can, I think, be from an extreme perspective understood as a justification to consider people as containing interchangeable spare parts, when for example you can save multiple people by harvesting the organs of a single other individual. – njzk2 May 03 '21 at 19:42
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Telling people they should smile sounds like a good thing, doesn't it? It's actually a really selfish thing to do. It's dismissive of why those people aren't smiling - people aren't unhappy for no reason, and telling them they should smile is really telling them they should just bury or ignore their problems so it doesn't bother you. This tends to come from men and be directed at women.

The "bro code" in all of it's forms is incredibly misogynistic. Usually it exists in one of two versions. First the "bros before hoes" version that treats relationships with male friends as always more important than those with women, while "slut shaming" and objectifying them with the use of the word hoes. The other and older version is the opposite, and puts the pursuit of women above friendships with other men, and that your male friends should understand this. It also objectifies women as a prize to be gone after and won.

Andrew
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    "The "bro code" in all of it's forms is incredibly misogynistic" really, you think so? // so, 'mates b4 dates' coming from a hetero female with no male friends is incredibly misogynistic? who knew :)) – Pelinore May 07 '21 at 09:16
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    It isn't always (or even normally) misogynistic, mostly it's just a case of 'love me love my dog / or mates (not literally of course, just like & get on with really)' which is only good sense, if a new partner (male or female) can't get on with your extant circle (male & female) chances are the relationship isn't worth the upheaval to your life of shedding all your current friends that it's likely to require, that's just common sense, for both males & females, no inherent misogyny in it // but I will give you that as used by some men (mostly young) it can be. – Pelinore May 07 '21 at 09:45
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    @Pelinore the "bro code" is gender specific, you can't change it that much, the wording, the user and the subject and still actually call it the bro code - and your depiction of the bro code is not common, or in my experience ever actually used - yes that situation exists, but no one I have ever seen calls it "bro code" – Andrew May 07 '21 at 13:29
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    "the "bro code" is gender specific" no it's really not // unless you're somehow trying to say that if women do it it somehow doesn't count & isn't sexist but when men do it it is? .. which would actually be a sexist opinion to hold, do you not see that? // "no one I have ever seen calls it "bro code"" potato patato .. the name may differ but the thing is the same & 'bro code' isn't an inherently sexist phrase, are you perhaps confusing it with bro's b4 ho's? the same thing but expressed with a tangibly sexist word. – Pelinore May 08 '21 at 01:23
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    @Pelinore The bro code IS gender specific, there can be a derivative of it that applies to women, it would be sexist as well and misadristic just like the bro code is misogynistic, but it wouldn't be a bro code - it would be some other also gender specific code something along the lines of "Sisters before misters" or "Chicks before d*cks" I'm sure that it exists, I am sure someone has named it, and I am sure that name isn't "bro code" – Andrew May 20 '21 at 19:00