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As we know the Elves are afflicted with sea-longing, which must have been known to the orc overlords. Why didn't the orcs just bide their time and perhaps even help the elves depart? They could have saved some resources this way and this could allow them to focus on other matters.

Let me give an example. The Hobbits were easily subdued in the Book, so why not deal with them first, then Men and the Dwarves and Elves after that? One thing at a time.

TheLethalCarrot
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    What is the source of your question? What are you struggling to understand? The Orcs were bred with a hatred for all the free people’s. You seem to think Orcs were only interested in having the Elvish lands, but Orcs tended to live underground. Also once the Elves had gone there was still Man, and Hobbits. I’m not sure what you’re trying to find out and that makes it difficult to answer your question. – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 10:57
  • So, why not deal with the Hobbits and Men, while ignoring the Elves? –  Mar 31 '21 at 11:32
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    @user1095108 because the Elves would not ignore the Orcs – OrangeDog Mar 31 '21 at 11:33
  • That may be true, but they would not actively pursue them either. –  Mar 31 '21 at 11:35
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    Your logic doesn't make sense. You're saying Orcs should actively help the Elves leave for some arbitrary purpose (I assume so they can have all the land) but that completely ignores the fact other Free Peoples exist as well. You're saying they should deal with those people, but for some reason ignore only the Elves? – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 12:55
  • if the elves leave by dying or by ship, what difference does it make? –  Mar 31 '21 at 13:02
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    Why do the Elves have to leave? You ask why the Orcs bothered with the Elves but you have no actual problem you’re trying to solve. Is there a reason they needed the Elves gone? Did they not want them gone? What do you not understand that led you to asking this question? – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 14:09
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    @Edlothiad The Orcs want the Elves gone, but why defeat the Elves in battle, if the Elves leave voluntarily? That's the gist of my question. Now, if an Elf dies, (s)he awakens in the Halls of Mandos, the end result is the same, as if (s)he departed by ship. –  Mar 31 '21 at 15:30
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    The Orcs want the Elves gone? Says who? The Orcs want the Elves destroyed mostly because their leaders commanded it. – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 19:22
  • Obviously you are not paying attention, elves cannot be destroyed, they reawake in the Halls of Mandos. Gone is not the same as destroyed. –  Mar 31 '21 at 20:16
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    The majority of orcs did what Morgoth/Sauron/Saruman told them to, and had little choice in the matter. The orcs of the Misty Mountains tended to act independently, and generally avoided pitched battles unless someone did something to upset them (e.g. sleeping in their front porch and then killing their leader), in which case they went out in numbers for revenge. – Ian Thompson Mar 31 '21 at 20:25
  • i did write in my questin, that the sea-linging must have been known to the orc overlords. –  Mar 31 '21 at 21:23
  • I am certainly paying attention, and trying to help, but you make it very difficult. There is no reason to believe the Orcs knew of the Halls of Mandos or much about Aman. If they killed an elf, the rejoiced. But their life didn’t revolve around hunting Elves. Maybe you should’ve paid more attention to what you were reading – Edlothiad Apr 01 '21 at 05:59
  • @Edlothiad No, you're not paying attention, I wrote that the orc overlords must have had that knowledge. –  Apr 01 '21 at 06:03
  • I think editing your question to something like 'Why didn't Sauron and/or Morgoth wait for the elves to leave before trying to take over Middle-Earth' (which seems to be what you are actually asking, in view of the comments) would make it much clearer. It would then have a good chance of being reopened and answered. – Ian Thompson Apr 01 '21 at 09:27
  • My question is more about why the Defeat in detail military strategy was not used by the orcs. Kill the hobbits, men or dwarves and they stay dead, "kill" the elves and they might return, so deal with them last after everyone else is dead, perhaps even try to win their favor. Focus on one race at a time. Possibly not fight the elves at all, as you can't kill them and they'll leave voluntarily anyway. –  Apr 01 '21 at 10:00
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    ... which can be answered I think. However, you need to ask about the strategy used by Morgoth/Sauron, not the strategy used by the orcs, who were just doing as they were told. With that clarification, I think the question stands a good chance of being reopened. – Ian Thompson Apr 01 '21 at 10:41
  • @IanThompson Does is really matter that much who the orcs are following? They are ultimately following a strategy that their leader told them to follow, i.e. they are not asking their leader what to do all the time. I think people simply wanted this question to get closed as it is "out-of-character" and they brought up Hitler and feigned confusion to that effect. If you look closely, I did mention "orc overlords" in my question. –  Apr 01 '21 at 11:08
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    Voting to reopen. I think I have a skeleton of a pretty good answer that's not opinion-based at all. – Matt Gutting Apr 01 '21 at 12:22
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    Again, why must the orc overlords have this knowledge? Which overlords are you talking about? If you're talking about Melkor/Sauron their squabble wasn't with Man but with the Elves. Your question is then moving towards what were the motivations of Melkor/Sauron which is entirely different. I'm not sure why you think there is a conspiracy against you, "feigning confusion" is a funny take though. – Edlothiad Apr 01 '21 at 12:39
  • @MattGutting I see no reason to re-open based on the question as is, unless you can provide a reason why this question should be re-opened I don't see myself casting my vote to agree with you. ("I have an answer" isn't a suitable reason imo). – Edlothiad Apr 01 '21 at 12:40
  • Tolkien wrote his books for literary effect, a decision which helped sell millions of copies of his books - few people follow reason, they are seeking the thrill of emotion. I often see defects along the lines of my question in works of fiction and I wished to share this one with you. It does not matter who leads the orcs, in the end the orcs follow a certain strategy. Even the leader himself follows a strategy, not the other way around. His job is to think of a strategy and see it implemented. As for Hitler... –  Apr 01 '21 at 13:44
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    It matters who leads the orcs because the leaders choose the strategy. There are reasons why both Morgoth and Sauron made the orcs fight the elves rather than waiting/hoping for them to leave; this isn't a 'defect' in the works. If you want to know what those reasons are then my advice is to clarify your question as I suggested above. – Ian Thompson Apr 01 '21 at 13:51
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    Of course it matters who leads the Orcs because your question depends entirely on that point. If it was Melkor he would have the orcs bother with the Elves because he wanted to see them destroyed. He wanted to cause them pain, and destruction. Destroy their lands, their lives, their world. If it was Sauron he wanted to dominate, the orcs under Sauron could possibly have ignored the Elves for a while but at some point he would try to use them to dominate the elves, as he tried to dominate Men and Dwarves. This is the whole point of the rings. @Ian seems to agree... – Edlothiad Apr 01 '21 at 13:52
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    @edlothiad because I think there's a definitive answer. Otherwise I wouldn't have said I had an answer, I would have said I had an opinion. If there's a definite answer then it's not opinion-based. – Matt Gutting Apr 02 '21 at 00:23
  • @edlothiad I've posted in Meta: https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/13312/should-this-tolkien-legendarium-question-have-been-closed – Matt Gutting Apr 02 '21 at 13:33
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    @MattGutting I believe you - go for it, the question is open again. – Rand al'Thor Apr 06 '21 at 13:54

2 Answers2

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Regarding "sea longing":

As noted in another answer, the "sea longing" is actually a longing for Valinor, which simply put is "paradise". When elves first appeared in Middle-Earth, they were invited by Valar ("the gods") to come live with them in Valinor.

Those elves who accepted and started the journey to Valinor are called Eldar and those who didn't are called Avari. Eldar in turn consists of three races: Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri. All of Vanyar and Nolder went to Valinor, but only some of Teleri. The events of Silmarillion focus on most of Noldor returning to Middle-Earth to reclaim the stolen Silmarils.

So those elves who would have "sea longing" would be those belonging to Noldor or Teleri. One of the main reasons is that their family and kin live in Valinor and elves who die also travel there (to the Halls of Mandos) in a form of reincarnation. From the more notable characters of LotR: Elrond, Arwen and Galadriel are of Noldor, Legolas and Celeborn are of Teleri.

The majority of elves in the Mirkwood area are Avari though.

Regarding "lets start with the hobbits first":

After his defeat by the Last Alliance between elves and Men, Sauron had been planning his conquest for several millennium. He was biding his time, waiting for the elves in particular to grow weaker, but also for Valar to lose interest in Middle-Earth.

Sauron had closely been grinding down Gondor over time, slowly but steadily claiming bit by bit of it: Minas Ithil, Ithilien, even Gondor's former capital Osgiliath.

When the One Ring unexpectedly surfaces, events escalate out of Sauron's control. Sauron's plan was to use Saruman to keep Rohan in check and eventually neutralize or defeat that country. When he sees Pippin in the Palantír, he thinks that it is the Ringbearer and that Saruman has found the One Ring. Then as he sends a nazgûl to check, he learns that Saruman has been unexpectedly defeated.

This forces Sauron's hand - he feared that one of his enemies would use the One Ring against him - someone like Gandalf or Aragorn. And also that an alliance between Gondor and Rohan would now happen. So he starts an all-out war, trying to defeat Gondor before Rohan would come to their aid.

But also a war in the north, against dwarves, elves and men there. Sauron had troops around Mirkwood, or could move them there from Mordor unchallenged. But he couldn't easily take an army across the Misty Mountains - it means passing Rohan, or Lórien and Mirkwood. And Sauron couldn't single out one faction at a time in that area, since they all band together as allies (made possible through the events of The Hobbit).

So there's no easy way to get an army to The Shire. Plus everyone regards the hobbits as irrelevant, if they even know of them. The Shire isn't a sensible military objective, since it doesn't even have any military.

As for "hobbits easily subdued", that happens mostly though Saurman's cunning and charisma than out of military force. The hobbits outnumber his gang greatly, as they soon realize when Frodo & company returns to lead them.

Amarth
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The sea longing is not known to affect all Elves. The Avari had no interest of Aman. Even Eldar who avoided the sea could last at least a long time, if not permanently, before feeling the call (see Legolas). Even if it did affect all of them you are talking about thousands of years, between the First and start of the Fourth Ages, and they did not even all leave by the Fourth Age. Also until the start of the Fourth Age, they were generally not acting independently. They were acting under the orders of others: Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman for some of them at the end.

suchiuomizu
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  • sure and these orc leaders surely knew about the sea-longing. As for time, the orcs were immortal and had plenty of time. –  Mar 31 '21 at 12:41
  • @user1095108 the Orcs were never immortal. I'm not sure where you got that idea from bu it's wrong. – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 12:55
  • Long-lived at least, then :) –  Mar 31 '21 at 13:00
  • @user1095108 even compared to men they are not long-lived https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/60548/are-tolkiens-orcs-immortal – fez Mar 31 '21 at 13:25
  • Bolg ruled the northern goblins for about 150 years and was slain in battle I might add. –  Mar 31 '21 at 13:32
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    Long lived related to what? A fly? Some lived >100 years, as did many Men in the Second and some in the Third age. They were certainly not long lived in the scope of Middle-earth. Thorin was 195 himself. – Edlothiad Mar 31 '21 at 14:08
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    You are wading into a different topic entirely. If you google for this topic, you'll see that opinions vastly differ. It's not what my question is about. –  Mar 31 '21 at 15:01