Aren't there too many Uruks in Helm's Deep?

Question

This is just something that always bothered me. Aren't the Uruks portrayed before and during the battle too many to really be only 10k? 10k people aren't really that many, is the capacity of a very small football stadium. To me they look more like 30-50k, especially when Saruman watches them from the balcony, when they march and during the first scene of the battle.

Are there actually more than 10,000 Uruks present at the battle?

This has one "opinion based" close vote, but I don't think it is (jack_the_beast, the wording of the question "I think", "it seems" etc doesn't help here). However, I'm sure some fellow nerd has counted / estimated the number of Uruk in Sarumans army, given an analysis of the movie I'm sure something could be arrived at. — Binary Worrier, Jul 28 '20 at 15:44
@BinaryWorrier It was opinion-based before I changed the final line from "Does anyone agree?" — F1Krazy, Jul 28 '20 at 15:45
Saruman states in the film script that there are "Tens of thousands." — Valorum, Jul 28 '20 at 15:46
@F1Krazy An extremely literal reading of the question was that it was opinion based yeah. Anyone that can read passed that should have seen what the question actually is and it isn't opinion based. — TheLethalCarrot, Jul 28 '20 at 15:47
@TheLethalCarrot - Without a basis for why we should think there are ten thousand present, the question reads opinion-based. Your answer is basically a frame-challenge for OP mishearing something that they've not shared with us — Valorum, Jul 28 '20 at 15:57
@Valorum I mean we both came to the same conclusion that the OP appears to have misheard the line so the why seems to pretty clear. — TheLethalCarrot, Jul 28 '20 at 15:58
@jack_the_beast - It's dim and he's not got a very good view. He's estimating and it's not clear that he's looking at the entire force. Also the script (later on) mentions that there are ten thousand of the enemy's force present so the rest might be out of view or elsewhere — Valorum, Jul 28 '20 at 16:01
Not enough for an answer: this is Jackson's LotR you're talking about, not Tolkien's LotR. Jackson's LotR was entirely enjoyable, but there is *simply to many of everything* in all of those movies. — elemtilas, Jul 28 '20 at 21:37
Middle-Earth is sparsely populated. An army of 10k is roughly what a country like Rohan can hope to gather. Anyway, I believe this is a duplicate: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/73386/how-could-saruman-lose-the-battle-of-helms-deep — Amarth, Jul 29 '20 at 13:04
Does this answer your question? How could Saruman lose the battle of Helm's Deep? — Amarth, Jul 29 '20 at 13:05

TheLethalCarrot · Answer 1 · 2020-07-28T16:05:27.353

6

Saruman doesn't have 10,000 Uruk-hai but "Tens of thousands", you've misheard what Saruman says.

Gríma: Even if it is breached, it would take a number beyond reckoning, thousands to storm the keep.

Saruman: Tens of thousands.

Gríma: But, my lord, there is no such force.

[Both of them came onto the balcony of the tower. Gríma suddenly sees and hears the enormous armies laid out below in neat rows and is astounded and awed. He continues to hold the extinguished candle aloft as he gapes at the vast army below. A horn is sounded, announcing the appearance of Saruman. A loud cheer is heard from the army. Saruman raises a hand.]

_{The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers script}

You can hear he says "Tens" in the relevant scene as well:

So yeah there are more than 10,000 present in the army, you just misheard the quote.

Note that when Aragorn relays the information to Théoden he says "Ten thousand strong at least" implying that there isn't only ten thousand but that is the minimum bound. He either didn't stay to keep counting or left to get the news back as quickly as possible. Ten thousand is already a formidable force, no point in carrying on counting when time is of the essence.

Théoden: A great host, you say?

Aragorn: All Isengard is emptied.

Théoden: How many?

Aragorn: Ten thousand strong at least.

Théoden: Ten thousand?!

_{The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers script}

edited Jul 28 '20 at 16:05

answered Jul 28 '20 at 15:54

TheLethalCarrot

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true, Saruman does indeed say that. So Aragorn is actually wrong in reporting 10k? Quite a mistake . I guess it's possible that he didn't see all of them during its journey to Helm's Deep. – jack_the_beast Jul 28 '20 at 16:01
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@jack_the_beast Updated on that part, Aragorn actually quotes "Ten thousand strong at least." not that the force is ten thousand strong. – TheLethalCarrot Jul 28 '20 at 16:06
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The movies are exaggerating. Tens of thousands. ..Saruman has an army that rivals Mordor .lol. Am I correct ? – TheMadHatter Jul 28 '20 at 17:44
So how many men did Theoden have ? – TheMadHatter Jul 28 '20 at 17:45
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If Theoden's reaction to a mere 10,000 was that strong, it seems like the difference between say 20,000 and 50,000 is pretty much academic. I can't blame Aragorn for not getting an exact headcount if the conclusion either way is "we're doomed". – Cadence Jul 28 '20 at 20:20
@TheMadHatter Sauron's forces are certainly beyond 100k orks. Plus men and trolls. The forces we see at the black gate easily encircling the (I think it was) 6,000 men were some random troops having been nearby. It is made quite clear that the troops almost storming Minas Tirith were a significant, but minor part of his army. – Philip Klöcking Jul 28 '20 at 20:59
The troop that attacked Minas Tirith belonged to the Witch-King. 75 000 orcs, says the movie script. So I suppose Saruman's armies rival that or the Witch King, atleast in the movies – TheMadHatter Jul 29 '20 at 03:01
In the book or movie I am not sure which; Aragorn says :"10 000 orcs lie between Frodo and Mount Doom " or something like dat. The plain of Gorgoroth is quite large (larger than Isengard atleast ) , and 10 000 sounds too little.Of course Sauron may have other armies elsewhere though – TheMadHatter Jul 29 '20 at 03:03
Does it seem realistic that Grima, who's quite clever, had missed out that there was huge army camping outside Isengard? How does anyone miss that? Even if the orcs aren't shouting and making noise in general as orcs tend to do... This scene is just awful and it's Jackson, not Tolkien. – Amarth Jul 29 '20 at 13:08
@Amarth well... that scene is just for epicness of it, not everything must be logic to the bone. besides I believe the uruks actually camped underground – jack_the_beast Jul 30 '20 at 07:18

Aren't there too many Uruks in Helm's Deep?

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