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During the Wolf-359 incident, 39 starships were destroyed, and 11,000 people were killed or assimilated.

Why didn’t one of the smaller ships warp into that one Borg cube? Doesn’t warping into it destroy anything?

Even if it just warps through without touching, one could program the navicom to self destruct while the ship is in the middle of Borg cube.

Paul D. Waite
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huseyin tugrul buyukisik
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    I think it should be noted that in The Best of Both Worlds Captain Riker gave Wesley the order to enter a collision course with the borg cube at Warp 2. He also ordered Engag... but was interrupted by data. – Biff MaGriff Aug 20 '12 at 18:27
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    Can you even warp through solid objects? Or into solid objects? – Bobby Aug 21 '12 at 19:41
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    @Bobby No, you can't your ship goes all splat and then all boom, Antimatter and all. I think that its fairly likely that it would have worked. – violet_white Dec 16 '13 at 12:32
  • It would be ideal for you to split your edit out into another question...so it could be marked as a duplicate of http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/72820/does-warp-travel-happen-in-the-4th-dimension-of-euclidean-space or http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/22570/what-would-be-the-effects-of-warp-collisions – Tritium21 Nov 19 '14 at 20:18
  • Thanks, How can I split then? – huseyin tugrul buyukisik Nov 19 '14 at 20:41
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    What reason is there to think that Borg shields couldn't block it? According to p. 129 of the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, photon torpedos have their own "warp sustainer" so they can continue to travel at warp speed if launched by a ship at warp speed, which would suggest a ship traveling at warp would just be equivalent in destructive power to some large number of photon torpedos. They were already launching huge barrages of photon torpedos at the cube at Wolf-359 with no apparent effect, so it's at least plausible that the Borg shields could handle a starship too. – Hypnosifl Nov 19 '14 at 20:42
  • @Hypnosifl, the non-warp ships would be firing non-warp photon torpedos. After all, it's warp sustainer, not initiator. – PointlessSpike Nov 20 '14 at 08:41
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    @PointlessSpike - But don't you think that if torpedoes fired at warp did far more damage, or were much better at penetrating shields, they would adopt the tactic of briefly jumping to warp, firing the torpedoes, and dropping out? (very brief warp flights are possible, see the Picard maneuver) We can't say for sure they didn't. But if not, it's probably because objects moving at warp don't do substantially more damage than objects moving at non-warp--we can't really assume kinetic energy at warp works like kinetic energy at non-warp. – Hypnosifl Nov 20 '14 at 13:16
  • The answers here missing the point - yes they don't want to do a suicide run, or maybe they're too damaged by the time they get that desperate. But neither of those answer the question of why they don't. They could bring a large unmanned ship with a warp drive for the sole purpose of ramming a Borg ship, even if it means laying in a course and beaming out just as they're hitting the "Engage" button... Riker almost did it in Best of Both Worlds, so it must be a tactic worth trying, even if it didn't work out in the end... – komodosp Aug 17 '17 at 14:16
  • The real question is how precise is warp travel? Is it really accurate to hit a ship, even one as large as a Borg Cube while travelling at warp speed? Because as we know space is big, really big. – IG_42 Aug 17 '17 at 18:41
  • According to Heisenberg's Principality of Uncertainity, it is very probable to miss a target at close to light speed. But star trek universe lets you even teleport people at warp speed so it may not be relevant. :D start trek physics – huseyin tugrul buyukisik Aug 17 '17 at 18:55

8 Answers8

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Trivial, really: The Federation is simply not in the business of Kamikaze suicide runs. And since we haven't seen an entire space-ship piloted per remote in a very reliable manner (not even shuttles), that's exactly what it would have to be.

If they dispatch a fleet of 39 ships to apprehend the Borg, they might not be surprised of casualties, but having a ship's crew sacrifice themselves is so horribly incompatible with the spirit of Star Trek (i.e. out-of-universe) and the Federation (in-universe) that Roddenberry'd be spinning like a drill in his grave for the mere suggestion.

Having said that, a similar tactic (at impulse speed, not at warp) was used once by Chakotay to take out a Kazon ship, but he had to be beamed out very dramatically milliseconds before impact, so the Kazon couldn't shoot the projectile ship down before impact. Now, this was close to impossible to do to a primitive Kazon ship (a species so primitive the Borg didn't even bother to assimilate). Think about how hard such a manoeuvre would be to use against the Borg.

bitmask
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  • OP is talking about ramming small ships, not starships. Program a shuttle for such collision and there would be no suicide. – user931 Aug 19 '12 at 14:18
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    @SachinShekhar: As I tried to point out; It's not that easy. You cannot just program a shuttle to fly before a space ship in a straight line (I don't remember which episode it was, but it was again Chakotay, who had to pilot a shuttle just in front of Voyager). As you point out, the Borg are not stupid, so you would need elaborate manoeuvres to actually hit the cube. Note that the smaller the ship, the easier for the Borg to destroy it before it hits the cube. – bitmask Aug 19 '12 at 14:28
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    "Ramming speed!" - Worf in First Contact, which suggests they do have the regulations for suicide attacks. –  Aug 19 '12 at 15:11
  • Then, why suicide point? OP has mentioned 11000 killed means he expects Federation to sacrifice few people. – user931 Aug 19 '12 at 15:15
  • @SachinShekhar: You see, that's exactly the point. When we watch Star Trek, we're not interested in recordings of (fictional) historic events, but ethics. I have trouble processing your statement involving "sacrificing a just a few people". Think about it outside a fictional setting. Who would you pick? What if you or your family were one of those few ones? It all looks simple if you look at numbers, but if you look at real people instead, your approach stops sounding so good, doesn't it? – bitmask Aug 19 '12 at 15:34
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    Kirk also made one or two suicide runs himself. – BBlake Aug 19 '12 at 19:39
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    @Keen: The fact that Worf gave that order doesn't necessarily imply that they have regulations that permit it. – Keith Thompson Aug 20 '12 at 03:09
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    I'll have to disagree. There are several instances where a Starfleet captain has ordered a collision course. It just so happens that it doesn't end up executed very often on-screen. – NorbyTheGeek Aug 20 '12 at 14:34
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    Ummm, ST2009 anyone? What exactly does everyone think happened to George Kirk? – ThePopMachine Aug 20 '12 at 15:27
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    @ThePopMachine: 1) What does that film had to do with Star Trek? 2) On a more serious note; What did George Kirk had to do with The Federation? – bitmask Aug 20 '12 at 16:01
  • In ST2009, did he even warp into the ship? I thought he was just ensuring the crew got off his ship safely (captain's last man on board) – Jeff Aug 20 '12 at 16:06
  • @Jeff: He rammed the ship into the opponent ship with impulse speed. – bitmask Aug 20 '12 at 16:18
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    I have to agree with Kamikazes, while it may not totally make sense, it seems like every featured star fleet captain is itching to go down with the ship in a blaze of glory. – Mark Rogers Aug 20 '12 at 17:44
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    @Keen That's....not exactly a suicide run, especially if the maneuver is intended to destroy the target, and not the ship. – Zibbobz Nov 17 '14 at 18:03
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    @bitmask While I feel for your distaste for using ST2009 as canon, the in-universe timeline split occurred the moment the Kelvin encountered the Narada. Thus George Kirk in ST2009 would have been operating under all the same Federation regulations and expectations and training as the prime reality. However, he is still four generations prior to TNG and we can expect training and attitudes to have changed. It would be like using the behavior of WWI naval officers to argue modern naval tactics. – Schwern Nov 19 '14 at 18:01
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    While I agree that a warp-ram is a last-ditch tactic, it's still a very valid tactic - especially in a situation like Wolf-359. ONE captain sacrificing his crew would've saved countless thousands of lives. And that sort of nobility seems very in-place for Starfleet. – Omegacron Nov 19 '14 at 18:54
  • Janeway kamikaze'd Voyager into the Temporal Destroyer from Year of Hell – Petersaber Jun 24 '15 at 07:42
  • @Petersaber: She knew what would probably happen, the ship was empty (as far as I remember) and she was a bit out of Federation space. – bitmask Jun 24 '15 at 07:47
  • @bitmask all true. Just providing another example. Still, what she did was a gamble. – Petersaber Jun 24 '15 at 07:49
  • This answer has a lot of out-of-universe truth to it, but in-universe, Riker did order a suicide attack and frankly it does not say anything why none of the other fleet captains would've made the same choice. – user1833028 Jan 26 '16 at 21:39
  • Did you contribute to the script of Star Wars Episode 8? – Richard N Sep 02 '19 at 06:19
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The "technical challenges" of this maneuver seem trivial to me given the facts: starships have ultra advanced computers and seemingly perfect warp timing capabilities (if you can recall the VOY episode where they burst-warp through a maze of obstacles). Shuttles or even ships can be piloted by a single person or remotely if need be, minimizing loss of life. Borg cubes are not the most agile of ships, I doubt one has the ability to move out of the way fast enough to dodge a vessel at warp, while simultaneously engaged in combat with other ships, and finally, one would only need to engage warp from a distance just outside the cube's weapons range... or maybe even within it. The cube could anticipate the move by scanning the ship you say, well then do it with a cloaked ship. Why not warp into a cube from right next to the cube? Maybe you'd choose to be further away just to "build up more speed". Overall it seems like a cube is a target that's hard to miss, and that doing this might be well justified if the cube has already taken out 38 of your ships with no signs of stopping.

I present an alternate "explanation" as to why we've never seen this rockin' awesome maneuver:

Could it be that the materials starships are constructed from have a strength-to-weight ratio that is so high that the inertia of a starship collision would actually do little damage, even at warp speed, as compared with the starship's weapons and warp core detonation?

or... OR... that the fake laws of physics dictate that a ship at warp actually has very little inertia... somehow.

James Jenkins
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Tom
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  • I have removed some parts of this answer that are more like comments and don't address the question directly. – James Jenkins Nov 20 '13 at 11:20
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    I think your last sentence may hold quite a lot of weight here- "a ship at warp actually has very little inertia... somehow." note the ST2009 and Worf's 1st C line suggest ramming at impulse. – Liath Sep 29 '14 at 13:26
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    Yes, a warp bubble tricks the universe into thinking the object has less mass/inertia. This is supported in Deja Q where Geordi puts a low level warp field around a moon to make it lighter so they can more easily push it. – Schwern Nov 19 '14 at 18:07
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The problem is that by the time a star ship is so badly damaged that there is no possible hope for it and the best move is to sacrifice everyone on board for chance of doing some damage to the cube then the ship is normally too badly damaged to actually go fast enough and survive enough shots to actually ram the cube in the first place.

As for an unmanned shuttle it would need to move extremely fast in an evasive way to reach the cube. The faster you go the more your mistakes matter, imagine travelling at the speed of light and being one degree out. This means that your programming would have to be absolutely perfect even though you would not be able to reliably determine where the cube was going to be in relation to yourself (assuming the craft was launched from your ship). If you get all that right then it only takes the cube to get a good shot in (even if it misses it can knock you off course) or the cube to move slightly and it is all for nothing. Even if you hit it then it still might not do a significant amount of damage.

Although, I am not aware of anyone ever saying in universe that they had never done this.

Stefan
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Simple: let us say, hypothetically, that you think the earth is about to be assimilated. You are the captain of a starship in the midst of the battle, and you realize the billions of lives on earth are more important than the hundreds on board your vessel. You have two logical reasons not to make a suicide run:

1.) You still think you have a chane to win without destroying your own ship.
2.) Your ship is damaged, and you cannot make a suicide run.

(3. A suicide run is so against your idealogy you'll doom billions so your crew can have somebody else kill them slightly later - not a logical reason.)

We know that the Borg, if you've ever seen First Contact, do not concentrate their fire on just one enemy ship to destroy, so by the time a kamikaze attack seemed like a good idea, it was probably too late for that judgement call to be made - none of the battered vessels left intact were capable of warp.

You'll notice that as Acting Captain, Commander Riker did order a collision at warp two that was belayed at the last possible moment.

user1833028
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A warp bubble does not impart any additional force, the bubble bends space so you are not technically moving at all, instead space is.

Basic physics says it would takes the entire power of the universe (infinite energy) to reach light speed, so there is no way the warp core does that. If it did any warp factor above 1 would have to destroy the universe if it imparted that energy to the target - so it can't work like that. Its been stated that the bubble moves space not the ship, so a ship at warp would be no different than one at max impulse (its not moving any faster than it was)

There is no way to reconcile the problem if at warp you release enough power to destroy the entire universe (and multiple times over above warp 1), so it can't be transferring momentum into energy

The same effect would have to be present for a warp core breach too, if that's how it worked but it isn't, one warp core goes bang so does the universe (as it would need to produce enough energy to cross the light barrier, which we know it doesn't), so it cannot work that way. Therefore the only conclusion is that ramming a ship is no different than a torpedo (its the detonation not the impact at warp that does the damage), ramming at impulse makes sense though as you get the impact and detonation

Bottom line is that warp does not (can not) travel faster than light from a momentum point of view

Matt
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  • Impulse, yes. Warp, no. +1. But setting a collision course at impulse aimed at a Borg vessel? Good luck.... Hey everybody, Dak says he's got this one! – Mazura Sep 19 '19 at 06:47
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How do we know that none were attempted? No (canonical) record of what happened to all the ships is available, other than they were destroyed. For all we know, one tried a ram and was unsuccessful. If it is a "desperate tactic" that Starfleet uses (or even one that Picard himself would consider), presumably the Borg would have prepared for it. (This is prior to the Voyager retcon of the power, anyway.)

Keith Douglas
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You could not warp into a ship. Warp Drive Involves surrounding the ship in an artificial Bubble of time space to avoid all those pesky issues that happen to objects traveling faster than the speed of light. Hence you cannot run in to anything much less ram anything.

Yomomasofat
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    Actually, that's what the deflector array was for. It's very possible to collide with other matter while in warp. – Izkata Aug 20 '12 at 22:40
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  • Not only is such a maneuver not "incompatible with the spirit of Star Trek," but it's actually the epitome of that spirit; a single crew nobly sacrificing themselves to save the lives of many others is the epitome of the Federation mindset. Sure, they probably don't have a section in the captain's titled "So, You Want to Make a Suicide Run," but still, gimme a break.
  • Who needs to "program a shuttle to fly in a straight line?" You program it to WARP into the other ship on a collision course. Is their anyone that's going to actually argue that the ship's computer can't handle this? Because if there is I would like to meet that person so I could slap them upside their stupid head. We're not talking about bobbing and weaving our way into them at impulse. We're talking warping into them. You could do this from outside weapons range, even.

James Jenkins' speculations are closer to reasonable.

However, the real reason they didn't warp into the cube is because if they did there would've been no rest of the movie. The writers didn't think that deeply into it. Obviously. I mean, come on. The plot revolves around the Borg going back in time.

Keith Thompson
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Ryan
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  • I don't see why this has so many down votes - it really is quite logical. – PopularIsn'tRight Nov 20 '14 at 02:29
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    @Bachrach44 - I didn't downvote it but I can see why others might have--the first two bullet points are criticisms of other's answers rather than answers to the original question (I think they're good criticisms, but it would have been better to put them as comments to the other answers). And the last paragraph is not an "in-universe" answer, which is what the original question seemed to be asking for. – Hypnosifl Nov 20 '14 at 14:43
  • While I admit that the " slap them upside their stupid head" comment was out of line and completely unnecessary, his points are both good, and the conclusion (which is a separate answer and therefore warrants it's own answer, complete with investigation and rejection of alternatives) is solid. Sometimes the correct answer really is an out of universe one. – PopularIsn'tRight Nov 20 '14 at 15:07
  • We need look no further than a certain Star Wars movie to understand why space operas can't have kinetic kill vehicles. – Mazura Sep 19 '19 at 06:43