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Harry and Cedric had equal points going into the Third Task:

"Ladies and gentlemen, the third and final task of the Triwizard Tournament is about to begin! Let me remind you how the points currently stand! Tied in first place, with eighty-five points each — Mr. Cedric Diggory and Mr. Harry Potter, both of Hogwarts School!"

Harry and Cedric touched the Triwizard Cup at the same moment:

He grabbed Harry's arm below the shoulder and helped Harry limp toward the plinth where the cup stood. When they had reached it, they both held a hand out over one of the cup's gleaming handles.

"On three, right?" said Harry. "One — two — three —"

He and Cedric both grasped a handle.

Whether the tournament is won by having the most points or by touching the cup first (as I asked in this question), it should have been a tie between Harry and Cedric — they had the same amount of points and touched the cup at the same time.

Indeed, the whole reason that they took the cup at the same time was that they wanted it to be tie:

"Both of us," Harry said.

"What?"

"We'll take it at the same time. It's still a Hogwarts victory. We'll tie for it."

Cedric stared at Harry. He unfolded his arms.

"You — you sure?"

"Yeah," said Harry. "Yeah... we've helped each other out, haven't we? We both got here. Let's just take it together."

For a moment, Cedric looked as though he couldn't believe his ears; then his face split in a grin.

"You're on," he said. "Come here."

Yet Fudge gave the entire thousand galleon prize to Harry:

"Your winnings," he said shortly, taking a large bag of gold out of his pocket and dropping it onto Harry's bedside table. "One thousand Galleons. There should have been a presentation ceremony, but under the circumstances..."

This was clearly the entire prize money, as that is the amount that was specified before the tournament began:

"The heads of Beauxbatons and Durmstrang will be arriving with their short-listed contenders in October, and the selection of the three champions will take place at Halloween. An impartial judge will decide which students are most worthy to compete for the Triwizard Cup, the glory of their school, and a thousand Galleons personal prize money."

Why was Harry considered the sole winner if it was actually a tie between him and Cedric? Granted Cedric was dead, but the money could still have been given to whoever inherited the rest of his possessions.

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Alex
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    How would they have known about the tie? The Cup was rigged and Harry's first reaction when he came back wasn't "yeah, it's a tie, I'm not the sole winner", it was "Voldemort is back, listen to me he is back!" – Jenayah Feb 25 '19 at 21:43
  • I would assume that they have some way of knowing who actually won. Otherwise one champion could get the cup first and another could just grab it from the first one and claim to have gotten it first. Perhaps it is similar to snitches which can tell who touched it first, or some other type of enchantment. – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 21:45
  • If there is no way of knowing who won, they should be all the more suspicious when two champions show up, one with the cup and the other dead. Perhaps Cedric really won and Harry just killed him? – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 21:46
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    A student died I really don’t think they’ll be bothered about the semantics of exactly who won and why. Harry came back alive, Cedric didn’t that was enough to decide a champion. – TheLethalCarrot Feb 25 '19 at 21:47
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    In most sporting event, the rule makers/officials have discretion to interpret the rules and apply judgment in same. – Skooba Feb 25 '19 at 21:48
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    Hence my "Cup was rigged". Whatever spells they put it on, they were broke. They had a mess on their hands, and only one live guy to give it to. Is it fair? Probalbly not. Did they care? Don't think so, they had other stuff to handle. Plus that Tournament was already a mess to begin with (four students and all) – Jenayah Feb 25 '19 at 21:48
  • @Skooba What rule or judgement were they interpreting or applying? Or do you mean that they can decide who won without knowledge of the facts of what happened? – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 21:50
  • @Jenayah It was rigged to be a portkey. Whether that would remove any enchantments that identify the winner or not, there doesn't seem to be any reason why it would only erase Cedric. So at best the evidence from the cup would be inconclusive. – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 21:54
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    @Jenayah it's also worth noting that the goblin bookmakers who were handling betting considered it a tie, since they refused to pay out Ludo Bagman's bet on Harry on that basis. – Kyle Doyle Feb 25 '19 at 22:14
  • Think about it. If they truly had a way do you think they wouldn't have known about the Portkey? They were instead shocked when Harry came out with the body of Cedric. And as @TheLethalCarrot points out Cedric was dead. Complain about it all you want but life isn't fair and the tournament in question can hardly be considered 'fair' or 'safe'. There is a reason they had cancelled it for so many years, after all. – Pryftan Feb 26 '19 at 01:18
  • @Alex I cannot believe you suggest that Harry would actually kill anyone. Not only is that ignoring his history (look at how it affects him when he sees the Unforgivable Curses! You think he'd be willing to kill? Really?) but it would almost certainly offend Rowling too. Just like the theory that Dumbledore might have created a Horcrux. The idea that Harry would kill anyone... Even Fudge didn't go to that extent. Nor did the Ministry. – Pryftan Feb 26 '19 at 01:23
  • If you are tied during a competition, then your opponent dies, you are going to be placed #1... The winnings won't go to a dead person... – Ginge Feb 26 '19 at 01:34
  • @Pryftan I This question is not about what's fair or safe; it's about who actually won according to the rules (either by being the first to touch the cup or by having the most points). – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 02:40
  • @Pryftan I didn't suggest that harry would actually kill someone. I said that showing up with the cup and a dead fellow contestant is not evidence of winning and if anything should raise suspicions about the live contestant killing the dead contestant in order to claim victory. – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 02:41
  • @Ginge If your opponent dies during the competition, then yes. In this case the opponent died after the competition had already ended. – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 02:42
  • That is a primarily opinion based comment. Some may consider that the competition ends after the closing ceremony... – Ginge Feb 26 '19 at 02:56
  • @Alex Clearly it's not about what's safe. There's a reason the contest had been stopped for many many years. You know - something to do with deaths? And you say you didn't suggest Harry killed Cedric? What would this imply to anyone Perhaps Cedric really won and Harry just killed him? I wonder? Even if you weren't implying that it's the only logical conclusion that you were suggesting it. None of them would have ever thought Harry would kill yet you ask directly what I quoted - and asking '..and Harry just killed him?' is not suggesting Harry killed him? Interesting use of English I admit. – Pryftan Mar 19 '19 at 17:43
  • @Pryftan Yes, the one line of Perhaps Cedric really won and Harry just killed him? out of context would indeed make it seem like I was suggesting it. But we have to look at the entirety of that comment in order to understand what I meant: If there is no way of knowing who won, they should be all the more suspicious when two champions show up, one with the cup and the other dead. Perhaps Cedric really won and Harry just killed him? In context, the suggestion is referring to the characters in the story. I.e. I was suggesting that they might think that Harry killed Cedric. – Alex Mar 20 '19 at 07:25
  • @Alex And that context you provide is also relevant to my point - and my point stands the same regardless. They would not suspect Harry under any circumstances esp at that point. Of all the spells for Harry to use... That's just asinine. He also was very very traumatised and you could tell he had been seriously injured. Yet they would have any suspicion? Sorry but the fact remains (1) I was using that context; (2) it's still wrong to suggest that they might suspect it. Not a chance and it would insult Rowling too for sure just as it did the theory that Dumbledore made a Horcrux. – Pryftan Mar 24 '19 at 12:12
  • @Pryftan I don't see what the insult is. If two champions show up, one dead and the other injured, and you don't know what happened, it is logical to discuss various possibilities. My point wasn't that they should specifically think that Harry killed Cedric. It was to give an example of a possibility that would be up for discussion, rather than simply declaring one person the winner with no factual basis. – Alex Mar 25 '19 at 17:46
  • @Alex Maybe so but it's preposterous to even consider that Harry of all people would have done that! He probably couldn't have performed the spell at all even if he tried. Remember he couldn't even cast Crucio in the next book and Miss Bella taunts him about that; only in book 7 does he note that he understands what she meant. Finally think of his history! Of all people you actually think they would consider that? That's just absolutely ridiculous. And what do you want to do, give the winner status to the dead participant? That's also rather silly don't you think? – Pryftan Apr 30 '19 at 12:39
  • @Pryftan We have to distinguish between what a reader’s reaction should be and what a character’s reaction should be. As for giving the winner status to a dead participant, I don’t think that’s silly at all. Pettigrew received an Order of Merlin while dead. – Alex May 01 '19 at 13:48
  • @Alex Okay fine make them 'a winner' but to pay a dead person? Really? That's preposterous. But let's say that it's more than valid. The reality is the Ministry of Magic is corrupt. I think Rowling even likened it to Chamberlain (though I don't think that's the best analogy it's fair enough). And as for reader's reaction versus character? Funny how I didn't have any problem with it nor would I have. Yes I think of these things. Why would I think it any different? I believe I already noted how it affected Harry terribly to see the Killing Curse on the spider? That says plenty. – Pryftan May 25 '19 at 15:47
  • @Pryftan As I've said, they wouldn't pay a dead person; they would pay his heirs. As for reactions, that's precisely my point. You as a reader have insight into Harry's nature that characters don't have. – Alex May 27 '19 at 22:47
  • @Alex I see you finally have some sense! :) (I’m just taking the piss). Yes I have insight but the fact remains that the things I’m arguing are things the chars would also be thinking. But anyway this site is going to be whining very soon so I'll stop after this. Bottom line is you're missing something; whether that's the way I interpret it versus you is certainly possible. It must be said I am a literal thinker and I also have a strange way of putting things to words at times. Re not paying the dead person you definitely missed my point there, for example. Cheers. – Pryftan Jun 04 '19 at 15:23

2 Answers2

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"You-Know-Who... returned? Preposterous."

We know that Voldemort killed Cedric Diggory after he touched the cup. But the only person in power who believes this is Dumbledore, and he's not the judge of who won. Everyone else, especially Fudge, didn't believe this. They believed that Cedric died during the Tournament, disqualifying him.

It's also worth mentioning that Harry offers the gold to the Diggorys, and they refuse:

Harry seized the sack of gold on the bedside table.

‘You take this,' he muttered to [Mrs. Diggory]. ‘It should’ve been Cedric’s, he got there first, you take it –'

But she backed away from him. ‘Oh, no, it’s yours, dear, we couldn’t ... you keep it.'

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  • If they don't know what actually happened in the maze, on what basis is Harry declared the winner? Surely, being in possession of the cup at some point after the tournament is not proof of winning. – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 17:46
  • @Alex Harry was holding the cup, which was a portkey that transported the winner back out (ref: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/18134/20672). If Cedric reached the cup first, he would be the one holding the cup. – neverendingqs Feb 26 '19 at 20:46
  • @neverendingqs Unfortunately, I think that that answer is entirely incorrect, as I have just explained in my answer there. – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 22:46
  • @Alex Yes..yes and your question could be considered 'incorrect' too depending on your definition of 'incorrect'. It ignores many circumstances like a student had been killed, there was nobody else who could have won (unless you think it should go to a corpse? ...) and many other things. And for all we know there was a property in the Cup that said only one could win even if both grabbed it at the same time. One could also say that the gold was an afterthought since if the contest was manipulated it wasn't really fair or valid. Harry shouldn't have even been in there. But he was. – Pryftan Mar 24 '19 at 12:16
  • @Pryftan An answer is incorrect when the explanation it proposes is false. A question is not incorrect, though it may be based on incorrect premises. In any case, I don't believe my question ignored any circumstances. The question is simply that according to the rules of the tournament Harry was not the (sole winner). The circumstances you speak of might be used to attempt to answer the question (as indeed some people have) but that's not a flaw in the question. And as I noted in earlier comments, dying after the tournament's completion should not have any official bearing. – Alex Mar 25 '19 at 17:42
  • @Alex So you're telling me that you know the rules of winning of the Triwizard Tournament? Interesting. Maybe you could enlighten us all? It's the one who first touched the Cup is all we know but since Cedric was dead and since Harry had the Cup - plus Cedric's body - the only logical winner is Harry. Like it or not the tournament was dangerous and that's why they had stopped it for so long. Like it or not you don't give gold to a dead person. That's just asinine. – Pryftan Apr 30 '19 at 12:41
  • @Pryftan I make no special claim of secret knowledge of the rules. All I know is that there are two possible ways of winning mentioned in the book: either touching the cup, or having the most points. Since Cedric tied with Harry in both of those areas, he should be considered a joint winner. The fact that he died after the tournament should not affect whether he won or not. And yes you can’t give gold to a dead person. But you can give it to whoever inherits all the rest of his possessions. – Alex May 01 '19 at 13:52
  • @Alex Well as I pointed out in another comment the Ministry is corrupt and far more important things had happened. Like for instance Harry claimed Voldemort was back - something the Ministry did not want to and did not accept until the Dark Lord himself was seen by the Minister (fear does these terrible things after all) - and that a kid had died. In the end whether or not something 'should' be one way does not always correlate with reality. In fact very often - and this is something I've pointed out for years - 'should' does not correlate with reality. That's even by definition. – Pryftan May 25 '19 at 15:56
  • @Pryftan Of course "should" and "reality" don't always correlate. But when they don't, we ask questions. – Alex May 27 '19 at 22:48
  • @Alex Maybe you do. You're one of the first if not the first I've ever encountered that way and I have pointed it out for years that should does not correlate to reality. But asking questions is useless even besides. Not everything goes as it should, there are different ideas of what 'should' should be and in any case most people just whine about it rather than consider the difference. But that's the point: it doesn't matter that it should be one way; what matters is the way it is. And in that case that means the Ministry is corrupt. Someone here likened him to Chamberlain ... (1/2) – Pryftan Jun 04 '19 at 15:32
  • @Alex But that's going too far: Fudge ignores the situation rather than appeases. Fudge has no problem with slander and libel simply to stay in power. He was willing to let the Dark Lord gather strength. Yes Chamberlain in some ways did that even without the following Sitzkrieg but he wanted peace whereas Fudge wanted power at any cost including the safety - and lives - of their world (and the Muggle world too). And that's all I'll say here because according to some this is general conversation. I have no interest in that at any time but especially with everything going on in my life. (2/2) – Pryftan Jun 04 '19 at 15:34
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Harry Potter is the points winner

Harry Potter was the only competitor left, Viktor Krum and Fleur Delacour were resigned from tournament and Cedric Diggory is dead.

Also the Task Ⅲ ended when Harry was apparated back (with the Cedric body and the Cup) at the beginning of the Maze.

“Harry felt himself slam flat into the ground;” — — “he tightened his hold on the two things he was still clutching – the smooth, cold handle of the Triwizard Cup, and Cedric’s body.” — — “He had come back to the edge of the maze.”

Harry and Cedric both had 85 points after the Task Ⅱ, so I would assume the Harry would get more points during the Task Ⅲ and get higher total points than other competitors.

Although Harry tried to offer the price money to Diggory's family.

Harry seized the sack of gold on the bedside table.
“You take this,” he muttered to her [Mrs Diggory]. “It should’ve been Cedric’s, he got there first, you take it –”
But she backed away from him. “Oh, no, it’s yours, dear, we couldn’t ... you keep it.”

Oni
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  • I noted in the question that Diggory was dead. But how does that make him not a winner? – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 22:53
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    He didn't claim the victory. – Oni Feb 25 '19 at 23:18
  • Does a winner have to claim the victory? Did Harry claim the victory? – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 23:20
  • Harry was given the price moneys. – Oni Feb 25 '19 at 23:21
  • That's exactly my question. Why was he given the money if it was actually a tie? – Alex Feb 25 '19 at 23:21
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    @Alex "When you have eliminated every other competitor, whoever remains, however reluctant, must be the winner." - Sherlock Holmes, more or less. – Misha R Feb 26 '19 at 00:16
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    @MishaR That would be true if he had died during the tournament. But he died after already (jointly) winning the tournament. – Alex Feb 26 '19 at 00:18
  • @Alex Yeah actually the more I think about it the more I agree. Voldemort killing Cedric had nothing to do with the tournament. Harry and Cedric explicitly agreed on it being a tie between them. Giving the victory to Harry and talking points away from Cedric for being killed after reaching the cup implicitly makes Voldemort part of the tournament. – Misha R Feb 26 '19 at 00:33
  • @MishaR Well..technically he was part of the tournament wasn't he? It is true he was part of it by abuse etc. but he still was a part of the tournament like it or not. And just as a pedant and being a literal thinker: technically Voldemort only ordered Wormtail to kill Cedric - and he did not himself kill Cedric though he would have no doubt done so. – Pryftan Feb 26 '19 at 01:07
  • @Pryftan Unless you mean "was part of it" in a purely semantic sense - i.e., "was there at the time," no, Voldemort is not part of the tournament. The Triwizard Tournament does not include a Voldemort Challenge. – Misha R Feb 26 '19 at 01:12
  • @MishaR Correct! He manipulated it. He interfered. That's part of it when you break it down. He did not participate as a contestant but he was still part of the tournament just as much as all the other contestants and also the judges and everyone else who had some sort of part to play. I’m not saying it wasn't foul play but still he influenced it in the end. – Pryftan Feb 26 '19 at 01:14
  • @Pryftan That's like saying that a bomb dropped on a soccer field was part of the game. Voldemort interfered, but that had nothing to do with the tournament, and certainly should not have counted against Cedric after both players reached the cup. If all we're doing is arguing over whether Voldemort was there, then yes, he was there. – Misha R Feb 26 '19 at 01:16
  • @MishaR I stated that indeed, yes. That's exactly what I’m getting at. Though I would instead say 'football' but I know what you mean. But I wasn't actually even thinking of Cedric in that way: I was simply saying he manipulated the tournament and literally that means he was part of it - he had some part to play. Not a contestant but still influenced the end and this resulted in 'a tragic accident' (as Dolores put it in her insolence and cruelty). – Pryftan Feb 26 '19 at 01:20
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – Misha R Feb 26 '19 at 01:23
  • Why would Harry get more points than Cedric? They touched the cup together. – Alex Feb 28 '19 at 16:42
  • Cedric died during the Task. – Oni Feb 28 '19 at 16:51
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    @Oni No, he did not. He was killed after completing it. By someone who was not part of the tournament. – Misha R Mar 05 '19 at 15:45
  • @MishaR Task ended when they returned to the front of the maze. – Oni Mar 06 '19 at 17:16
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    @Oni The challenge of the task was to reach the goblet. It's why they decided to touch the goblet together. If you have information to back up the claim that the return marks the end of the task, please cite that. Otherwise it's just something you're saying. – Misha R Mar 06 '19 at 17:22
  • @MishaR Well you can say that Cedric didn't die during the task but the fact remains the cup was related to the challenge so it's arguing semantics whether it's part of the challenge. But either way if touching the cup was part of the challenge and he did indeed do so and it resulted in his death then really it was because of the task that he died - even if it was manipulated and should not have happened. But you're right that literally touching the cup ended the tournament. As a literal thinker though I am trying to look at it both ways and I think that's what Oni is saying. Maybe not though. – Pryftan Mar 19 '19 at 17:48