Could Gandalf not have made his own One Ring?

Question

Sauron created The One Ring to gain control over the other ring-bearers, but it also amplified his power. Since it's a bad idea for anyone to claim The One Ring, wouldn't it be possible for Gandalf to create his own One Ring?

I think Gandalf the white would have the power and knowledge required but he wasn't allowed by the valar to challenge sauron directly — TerranGaming, Dec 13 '18 at 12:47
Maybe not the knowledge. Sauron, before joining Morgoth, was one of Aule's Maiar and would have been more specialized in making things like that. Of the Wizards, on Saruman shares a similar background. — suchiuomizu, Dec 13 '18 at 13:02
I agree - He should just have made The Other Ring, to rule nearly all — Stender, Dec 13 '18 at 13:35
Having more of these rings is kinda the opposite of what they were trying to accomplish. — Misha R, Dec 13 '18 at 14:10
@MishaR The Gandalf Ring wouldn't have to be evil. The One Ring was evil and as such compelled it's wearer to evil. Gandalf's ring could just not do that. — Parrotmaster, Dec 13 '18 at 14:13
@Parrotmaster Well, the One Ring was made to covertly establish control over others, which is something we see as innately evil. An alternative to a controlling ring would be an inspiring ring, but Gandalf already had one of those. And if it's just a matter of creating an overt powerful weapon, then there's no reason for it to be specifically a ring. — Misha R, Dec 13 '18 at 14:34
@MishaR Not only covertly, and to establish control over others; but crucially, Sauron assisted with the creation of those other Rings of Power; which is how he was able to establish control. Also remember Sauron "put the better part of himself into the creation of the Ruling Ring", in which "the better part" can be taken to mean "the most" or "the good part". Would Olórin have to become incorporeal? — Rich, Dec 14 '18 at 01:10
I second @MishaR . No matter whether he actually was able to, Gandalf would not have crafted anything similar to the One Ring (a vessel of his own power) out of principle. The war was not supposed to be won by him (or by raw power in general). If anything, he would have created helpful artifacts for e.g. Aragorn or Frodo. — Annatar, Dec 14 '18 at 13:29
Better idea: Make a ring that taps in exactly like Sauron's ring but doesn't actually do anything. Since it doesn't do anything, more power can be applied to tapping in and Sauron's can't because it's blocked due to a stronger binding. — Joshua, Dec 14 '18 at 20:44
@Stender: not good. If this goes on pretty soon you'd have "Yet Another Ring To Rule Some But Not Many! Now **IMPROVED** with Extra Whitening!!!!". Turn back. This way lies madness... :-) — Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні, Dec 16 '18 at 21:04
@BobJarvis - "You get a ring, You get a ring, EVERYBODY GETS A RING" — Stender, Dec 17 '18 at 08:14
@Stender: Humph! If everyone's a Ringbearer then no one is... (grumble) — Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні, Dec 17 '18 at 12:21
@Rich: Sauron only became incorporeal after Isildur cut the One Ring from his finger at the end of the Second Age (3441 SA). The One Ring was forged circa 1600 SA - thus, for over 2800 years Sauron retained his physical form. He didn't lose his physical form because he made the ring, but because it was taken from him, and with it much of his strength and power. — Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні, Dec 17 '18 at 12:35
Isn't that the plot point of Shadow of War game? It wasn't Gandalf, but they did made another ring to rule them all. — user28434, Dec 17 '18 at 14:35

score 91 · Accepted Answer · edited Mar 25 '22 at 14:35

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Possibly

In the foreword to The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien observes:

Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.

Tolkien therefore definitely conceives of Saruman as being capable of making a Ring, and therefore Gandalf would presumably have been likewise capable.

However, what we can also take from that statement is that making a Ring is not a simple task; there is some "lore" involved, and we know from elsewhere that Saruman had made especial study of the Rings of Power, but yet Tolkien states that even he would have required knowledge found only in Mordor to complete his own work.

So, to summarise:

Yes, but,
It's neither quick nor easy, because,
There is considerable "lore" involved, and,
It requires hundreds or even thousands of years of dedicated study to get to a "Saruman-level" of "lore", and,
Even then there will be missing knowledge which may only be found in Mordor.
So for all practical purposes it's actually "No".

edited Mar 25 '22 at 14:35

DavidW

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answered Dec 13 '18 at 15:23

Victim of Circumstance

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It seems clear from the Appendices that Celebrimbor needed Sauron's help to learn to make even the lesser rings -- further evidence that it was hard. – Mark Olson Dec 13 '18 at 15:28
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As mentioned in my comment to the question itself. Sauron and Saruman both started out as Maiar of Aule. This could have given both of them skill/knowledge (and possibly natural talent) in crafting things like this that Gandalf might not have possessed even if he wanted to. – suchiuomizu Dec 13 '18 at 15:31
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@suchiuomizu Gandalf was also one of the Maiar, though your point stands regardless. – Spitemaster Dec 13 '18 at 22:48
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@Spitemaster, Gandalf was a Maiar of Manwe (the winds), and associated with Irmo (visions and dreams) and Nienna (mercy). That produces a rather different skillset than associating with Aule (smithing, craftsmanship). – Mark Dec 13 '18 at 23:53
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I'd also like to add that all rings are subject to The One Ring, regardless of their circumstance. The Three rings of the Elves were constructed without any assistance from Sauron, and yet they still fell under it's dominion. All magic rings do. Gandalf would know this. Why make a set of chains to wear just so Sauron can lead you around by them, if he wins? – BoredBsee Dec 14 '18 at 00:36
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@BoredBsee But Gandalf wears one of the 3 Elven rings anyway. If he was worried about that consequence, surely he wouldn't wear the Elven ring? – Philbo Dec 14 '18 at 10:01
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@BoredBsee no direct assistance, but it's from Sauron that the elves learned ring-crafting in the first place. – OrangeDog Dec 14 '18 at 12:27
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The One was made to control the rings that existed at that time. There's no evidence one way or the other that a new ring couldn't be made according to a different "blueprint" to avoid control by the One. – chepner Dec 14 '18 at 21:44
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Saruman != Gandalf, and @suchiuomizu: Is spot on. Mairon and Saruman trained with Aule. Olorin was passed around between Manwe, Varda, Irmo and Nienna. He was more of a garden guy than a forge guy. – einpoklum Dec 16 '18 at 16:20
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This quote is taken out of context. What Tolkien says is that LotR is not an allegory of WWII, and if it had been, its themes would have been different. The two preceding sentences are: “The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would have been seized and used against Sauron; he would not have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dur would not have been destroyed but occupied.” He’s saying the book he actually wrote is nothing like that. – Davislor Jan 03 '19 at 04:02
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In context, Tolkien is pooh-pooing the idea that Sauron and Saruman represent Hitler and Stalin. He’s making the point that Saruman never got the Ring like Stalin got the Bomb and Middle-Earth did not end up in a Cold War. He isn’t describing what Saruman was like in the book he wrote, but what he’s not. – Davislor Jan 03 '19 at 04:06

Amarth · Answer 2 · 2018-12-14T15:50:07.300

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I doubt it.

Going through all the artifacts throughout the books, the knowledge of forging great magical artifacts seems to mainly originate from the Vala Aulë.

Sauron (and Saruman) was originally a Maia of Aulë.
The greatest craftsman through the ages, Fëanor, was a student of Aulë.
The knowledge of making the elven rings came from Annatar/Sauron. But knowledge was likely also passed down from Fëanor, to his son Curufin, to his son Celebrimbor.

The recurring pattern in the making of almost all magical artifacts in the books, is great smithing skill.

Sauron, Fëanor and Celebrimbor were all skilled mastersmiths. The most powerful artifacts of Middle-Earth through the ages were made by these three. When it comes to the creation of magical items, craft in smithing seems to be an important skill, perhaps more so than knowledge of magic and lore.

There is no indication throughout the books that Gandalf, or anyone else but the mentioned three characters would have the ability to forge major magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Palantíri or the Rings of Power. Even the Phial of Galadriel originates from Fëanor, as all Galadriel did was to capture the light of a Silmaril.

No elves outside the House of Fëanor attempt to make major artifacts. Neither does anyone of the other races, save for Sauron. Minor magical aritfacts like the swords Anglachel or Glamdring can evidently be made by other skilled smiths.

The necklace Nauglamír was made by dwarves - the children of Aulë and skilled smiths - but it doesn't seem to have any magical abilities beyond beauty. Similarly, dwarven items made of Mithril seem to be both beautiful and of extra-ordinary high quality, but not necessarily magical.

edited Dec 14 '18 at 15:50

answered Dec 13 '18 at 16:32

Amarth

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There isn't really such thing as "knowledge of magic". The elves craft and smith things with great skill, and the things they make have useful properties, and men call it "magic". As far as the elves (and miar) are conerned, they're just better at making things than men are. – OrangeDog Dec 14 '18 at 12:39
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@OrangeDog Of course there is magic, as there are plenty of spells cast throughout the books. And if there is magic, there is knowledge of magic. As for if it is needed for crafting artifacts, we don't know. – Amarth Dec 14 '18 at 15:55
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@Amarth Doesn't the edit feature disallow one-character edits? – mtraceur Dec 14 '18 at 20:26
@Amarth Not sure what happened to my earlier comment, I didn't delete it, but yes, I'm sure about the lack of capitalization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palant%C3%ADr Tolkien himself was quite inconsistent with Quenya transcriptions of names, but in the case of the palantír, they were pretty common when created, only becoming rare toward the end of the Third Age. So it's acceptable to capitalize, but not preferred. – Rich Dec 17 '18 at 17:35
@Rich I doubt they were ever common, if they were made by Fëanor himself. Though it is weird that the "master stone" is on Tol Eressëa and not in Valinor, if it was made by a Noldo. I don't remember if Tolkien gave an explanation for that. – Amarth Dec 17 '18 at 18:04
@Amarth - Better reference, Helge Fauskanger's Quenya corpus wordlist: https://folk.uib.no/hnohf/wordlists.htm Note Silmaril, Silmarilli, Silmarillë, Silmarillion are capitalized, palantír, palantíri are not when applied to the jewels, but Palantir as a personal name meaning "Far-sighted" is capitalized. Also note alternate early spelling pálan-tìr indicating stress on first syllable. – Rich Dec 17 '18 at 18:23
@Amarth, no they were pretty common. Read the sources. English never referred to "Computers" even when there were only a half dozen in the entire world. It was always "computers". – Rich Dec 17 '18 at 18:23

Argenti Apparatus · Answer 3 · 2018-12-17T11:30:08.920

The rings made by Sauron, and specifically the One Ring, did not give Sauron extra raw power, they were a method of applying his existing, innate power over men, dwarves and elves. The rings did not amplify Sauron's power, they attempted to apply it more effectively. (This did not work completely as intended on the dwarves and elves of course, and it enabled Sauron to eventually be destroyed).

Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron. The rings are 'of power' because they give the wearer some of Sauron's power.

If Saruman could make similar rings he would have used them in the same way - to attempt to control his own men and orcs.

If Gandalf made a ring or rings, he would not be any more powerful in total, as he'd have to put his own power into them. If he did make rings, the effect on a wearer would probably just be to make them like hobbits a bit more.

You deserve more upvotes for the last paragraph alone. Otherwise, you've answered the question completely. — Rich, Dec 14 '18 at 01:33
"Sauron put a lot of himself and his power into the rings. You could almost say the rings were a part of Sauron" - A bit like (and I will of course acknowledge the historical order of the concepts) a horcrux from Another Place ..... — MikeW, Dec 14 '18 at 13:49

score 6 · Answer 4 · answered Dec 13 '18 at 18:03

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It's rather like building your own computer. You may know the theory, but you really need a certain industrial base to support a silicon fab plant. So Gandalf might know how a Ring is made, but he can't just wish it into being. He (or anyone) needs all that supporting infrastructure that really doesn't exist in the Third Age.

The more interesting question, now that I think on it, is why Sauron didn't make more rings. Even if they're not nearly as powerful as the One Ring, they'd still be useful. He seems to have the industrial base in Mordor, and is said to still use the fires of the Sammath Naur on occasion...

answered Dec 13 '18 at 18:03

jamesqf

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The only infrastructure needed seems to be a hot forge...? Or in case of the One Ring, Mount Doom, which does exist in the third age. What claim do you have for anything else being needed? – Amarth Dec 13 '18 at 19:25
Perhaps because Sauron lacks physical form and/or was diminished after losing the One Ring, he cannot forge new rings. – RobertF Dec 15 '18 at 02:03

score 4 · Answer 5 · edited Mar 25 '22 at 14:31

There are a lot of great answers already, and I would elaborate a bit on VictimOfCircumstance's suggestion of time being an issue.

By the time the Istari (wizards) were dispatched to Middle-earth, Sauron was already extremely powerful, not to mention a master smith on the level of (if not more skilled than) Celebrimbor. For Gandalf (or Saruman for that matter) to learn the magical lore as well as the smithing skill required to forge a ring equal to the One, it would likely have taken more time than they had. This is suggested by the fact that it took Sauron quite a while to accomplish the feat, even though he had served Aulë, the great smith, before he was corrupted by the evils of Morgoth.

In addition to that, there are moral considerations. Gandalf already bore one of the 3 elven rings, and would therefore have been acutely aware of the effects of even the most benign of the rings of power. He also knew that the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was especially true when it comes to magic. He had served Manwë, and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar, while he lived in Valinor. When he was asked to be among the Istari sent to Middle-earth he did not want to go, saying that he feared Sauron and lacked the strength to challenge him. Manwë's response was that this was more reason for him to go, and Gandalf likely understood this to mean that he would need to unite the peoples of Middle-earth to accomplish his goal. He would therefore be wary of any path to success that focused on increasing his own power instead of increasing the cooperation and wisdom of the mortals he was there to help.

This is kind of assuming that Istari, while living in Valinor, spent their time twiddling thumbs. Saruman spent several ages as a servant of Aulë - possibly longer than Sauron did, as Sauron defected to Melkor quite early. The art of forging rings isn't necessarily a Middle-Earth-specific thing. — Amarth, Dec 14 '18 at 16:16
@Amarth The Istari certainly weren't idle in Valinor, just likely not actively working against Sauron until they were called by Manwe and the other Vala, at least that's how I understood it. I knew Saruman was versed in the lore, but I had forgotten he had been a servant of Aule as well. I guess a more relevant thought might be that he didn't have specific enough knowledge of the existing rings of power (at least the ones Sauron created/consulted on in Middle-earth) to create one that would hold sway over them? — tuxmachina, Dec 15 '18 at 14:28

score 2 · Answer 6 · answered Dec 13 '18 at 19:17

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There are two aspects of the One Ring.

It is a ring of power
It Rules Them All (the 9, the 7, and the 3)

The other answers address Gandalf making a ring of power in general.

The thing that makes the One special is that it rules them all, and this is because Sauron helped the elves, dwarves, and men make their rings of power and made the One simultaneously in secret to control them. A new ring of power made much later by someone else probably could not be another "One Ring" in this respect.

answered Dec 13 '18 at 19:17

usul

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The One Ring does not rule the 3 elven rings, the poem is a bit flawed there. Their fate is linked up with the One Ring though. – Amarth Dec 13 '18 at 19:47
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@Amarth why did the owners of the 3 remove them when Sauron first put the One on then? – James Hollis Dec 13 '18 at 22:47
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@JamesHollis Celebrimbor and the other smiths of Eregion sought Sauron's expertise to create the elven rings. Something in that "formula" linked them to Sauron, and when he made the Ruling Ring he put that part of himself into its creation. – Rich Dec 14 '18 at 01:27
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@Rich The Silmarillion states "the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron never touched them, yet they also were subject to the One". So the One did rule the Three. Amarth is wrong. – James Hollis Dec 14 '18 at 10:27
@JamesHollis What's the distinction there? As in what does it mean that they remained unsullied but subject to the One? – Philbo Dec 14 '18 at 12:57
Untouched by Sauron. So not "dirty" :-) – MikeW Dec 14 '18 at 13:51
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@Philbo When Sauron first wore The One, the elves immediately sensed what he was doing and removed their rings. Sauron, feeling cheated, invaded and demanded the Rings of Power "returned" to him. He got most of them, including the Seven and the Nine, but not the Three. They were unsullied in the sense that they were never part of Sauron's evil plans. But they were still made in much the same way as the other Rings of Power, and were thus subject to control by the One. – James Hollis Dec 14 '18 at 14:12
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@JamesHollis Depends on what you mean with "rule". The wearer of the 3 doesn't become a thrall like the Nazgul. But then I don't think the wearers of the 7 became that either. So it's not clear what's meant with ruling. It is however clear that the origin of the line "One Ring to rule them all" is Sauron, as he engraved his ambition with the One Ring on the ring itself. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is a property of the One Ring. – Amarth Dec 14 '18 at 16:12
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It's worth noting that the Three became powerless after the destruction of the One. There had to be a link. – David Thornley Dec 14 '18 at 16:57
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@Amarth "One Ring to rule them all" is Sauron, but "yet they were also subject to the One" is Tolkien. That's pretty good evidence that a wearer of the 3 will become a thrall. Can you quote any text to the contrary? – James Hollis Dec 14 '18 at 18:49
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I have no direct quotation off the top of my head, and this might need to move to chat soon because we've diverged from the question, but I remember reading something to the effect that it wasn't so much the difference of the rings as much as the wearers that prevented full-blown enthrallment. Didn't Tolkien indicate on several occasions that men are uniquely more corruptible than the elves and dwarves? – mtraceur Dec 14 '18 at 20:36
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@mtraceur Yes. The Seven did not have much effect on the dwarves, even though they were much the same as the Nine, which thoroughly corrupted the men. And the elves were able to sense Sauron's influence and take their rings off, including the Seven and Nine which they possessed at that time. – James Hollis Dec 14 '18 at 21:04

Could Gandalf not have made his own One Ring?

6 Answers6

Possibly

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