54

In The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers after becoming Gandalf the White, Gandalf cast Saruman from the Order and the Council. He also got the power to break Saruman's staff, which was very powerful.

So when Saruman captured Gandalf the Grey on Orthanc, why didn't Saruman do the same? He meant to find the One Ring's location from Gandalf. He could have broken Gandalf's staff, thereby decreasing Gandalf's power.

TheLethalCarrot
  • 143,332
  • 64
  • 808
  • 878
Fiddler
  • 4,320
  • 6
  • 26
  • 40
  • 16
    I always assumed he wanted to turn Gandalf to join his cause. If Gandalf would lose his wand, he wouldn't be as useful. I got nothing to back that up though. – Mixxiphoid Nov 28 '18 at 07:25
  • @Mixxiphoid He could get the One Ring's location from him. That could be done without his staff. – Fiddler Nov 28 '18 at 11:55
  • 10
    Do we have reason to believe that Saruman did not break or confiscate Gandalf's staff, and Gandalf just picked up a new one in Rivendell after his escape from the roof? There is also the question of Gandalf's sword, Glamdring; is he not carrying it when he has his encounter with Saruman? In the movie it is on his horse, which is not Shadowfax, so why doesn't Saruman now have Glamdring? – Eric Lippert Nov 28 '18 at 14:42
  • Somewhat related https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/85706/what-is-the-function-of-a-wizards-staff – RedBaron Nov 29 '18 at 04:43
  • Because he underestimated him? – RobbyReindeer Nov 30 '18 at 09:32
  • I think the answers are good enough, and I don't have a lot to back this just yet - hence, a comment. I think the staff breaking is about authority, not power. Saruman, in his abandoning the true way by aligning with Sauron, remains powerful but has lost the 'divine' right to it. Gandalf, in assuming the mantle of 'the White' is granted authority to effectively strip Saruman of both his power and the authority of an Istari, and that is what the breaking of the staff symbolizes. It's a middle earth 'hand over your gun and badge' moment. – NKCampbell Mar 25 '22 at 21:43

7 Answers7

74

A wizard's staff is symbolic rather than a source of actual power, and so breaking a wizard's staff has no effect on the wizard's power.

How do we know this? Because Gandalf was able to defeat the Balrog without his staff.

At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand.

This was before his battle with the Balrog.

Saruman therefore didn't break Gandalf's staff because there was no need for him to do so and also because doing so would not have accomplished anything.

Voronwé
  • 26,367
  • 9
  • 122
  • 180
  • 4
    Then why did Gandalf break Saruman's staff? – Fiddler Nov 28 '18 at 11:54
  • 15
    @Asif Iqubal: Symbolism, both for the good guys and to make the point to Saruman himself. While breaking Saruman's staff had no effect on Saruman's powers, it did make the point to S. that Gandalf, not he, was the more powerful. Remember, that Gandalf still hoped for S.'s redemption and aid in the fight against Sauron. Saruman understanding that he had lost his position as Chief Wizard was a necessary step in that direction. It also made the point to Rohan, the Ents and everyone else that Gandalf had changed. (Remember that G. was not allowed to lead by domination, people had to follow.) – Mark Olson Nov 28 '18 at 12:56
  • 65
    I disagree. If Gandalf's staff was decorative, why did it broke after demolishing Moria bridge? Why did Gandalf insist to retain his staff during audience with Theoden? – user1643723 Nov 28 '18 at 13:11
  • 33
    +1 on @user1643723; Gandalf needed to trick/convince the guards into letting him keep his staff in Edoras. He defeated the Balrog using his sword (and the cold waters). – molnarm Nov 28 '18 at 13:28
  • 49
    Certainly a wizard doesn't need his staff to perform magic...but that doesn't mean the staff is symbolic. Anymore than the elven rings were symbolic. Clearly these staves are important to these wizards, and equally clearly, Gandalf is empowered to break Saruman's stuff in a way that Saruman was not so empowered. The wizard's staff is a vestment of authority, and the source of that authority comes from the Valar and ultimately, Illuvatar. and as Saruman was corrupt and fallen, authority was granted to Mithrandir. So I've always read between the lines, anyway. – nunya Nov 28 '18 at 15:28
  • 35
    The breaking of Saruman's staff serves to excommunicate him. It is a withdrawal of Saruman's divine authority, enacted by Gandalf, as the loyal earthly agent of the Valar. – nunya Nov 28 '18 at 15:30
  • 2
    I didn't say it was "decorative" I said it was symbolic. Think of the epaulets that military officers wear. When an officer was thrown out of the service, his epaulets would be ceremonially stripped off. Likewise staffs: they are symbols of wizardry (and perhaps helpful tools) but in no way sources of power.

    In Tolkien's universe, power came from an individual's being; when Sauron put much of it into the Ring, he was diminished. Feanor and Yavanna created the Silmarils and the Trees, and were also diminished. There is no hint that in the canon for wizards did that with their staffs.

    – Mark Olson Nov 28 '18 at 15:36
  • I didn't say you said decorative? Or did I? Well either way. I don't disagree with your answer, just adding some additional thoughts. =) Sorry, couldn't resist. It's LOTR. – nunya Nov 28 '18 at 15:52
  • 1
    I think we all agree that breaking a staff is a symbolic act, but that doesn't mean that it's purely a symbol, nor is it (as pointed out above) the source of power: maybe it's more like a tool, useful in the right hands. – molnarm Nov 28 '18 at 16:02
  • 7
    When you break the sword of a knight, it doesn't mean he is powerless. But is isn't symbolic either. However, coming up with solid evidence that Gandalf needs his staff to express/unleash his power might be difficult. I disagree with the answer, but at the same time realise it might be impossible to give a better one. – Mixxiphoid Nov 28 '18 at 16:12
  • The staff does appear to hold some value. I mean it makes sense for Gandalf, who walks among the poor and middle class to use one. But why would Saruman? unless it held some source of power. – Mark Rogers Nov 28 '18 at 16:33
  • I don't think the staff is purely symbolic. Pretty sure it works as a focusing tool for their power. – Schrodinger'sStat Nov 28 '18 at 21:25
  • 2
    It's clearly not purely symbolic. It also functions as a walking stick. This is important because Gandalf hikes a lot. – aroth Nov 30 '18 at 01:23
  • 2
    "Because Gandalf was able to defeat the Balrog without his staff" This could very well mean Gandalf was just that powerful even without it – user13267 Nov 30 '18 at 08:24
  • @nunya So it's like how my driver's license actually belongs to the state even though it's the single most common thing used to identify me? – corsiKa Dec 01 '18 at 18:37
  • It's not necessarily merely symbolic, we just don't know. Olorin's name among the dwarves, Tharkûn, actually means "staff-man", and among men, Gandalf, means "Elf of the Wand". "Unfinished Tales" tells us the Istari arrived from Valinor with their staff, so they were most likely crafted by the Valar. Also, don't forget that both Gandalf and Saruman wield a new staff after the Balrog fight when Gandalf is sent back, and after the breaking of Saruman's staff (The Return of the King Book 2 Chapter 6: "Many Partings"). – Codosaur Dec 02 '18 at 10:48
  • 1
    The staff seemed to matter when they were about to have their first meeting with Theoden. Gandalf made sure they would not take his staff like they took the weapons of his companions. – Misha R Sep 22 '19 at 03:32
32

Presumably because Gandalf was sent back by the Powers with greater power specifically for the purpose of fulfilling the role that Saruman had forsaken, to contest Sauron.

From The Two Towers (emphasis mine):

Naked I was sent back - for a brief time, until my task is done.

Then to Saruman later:

'Come back, Saruman!' Gandalf said in a commanding voice. To the amazement of the others, Saruman turned back as if dragged against his will...

Since the Istari were Maiar, an increase in power would only have come from some greater being (i.e. Ilúvatar) so Gandalf is able to do what he did to Saruman (a reversal of their earlier position) because he is an agent of a greater Power still, and was granted that authority by his divine master.

DavidW
  • 128,443
  • 29
  • 545
  • 685
Jared Smith
  • 1,826
  • 12
  • 15
  • 4
    Nitpick: Gandalf was not brought back by the valar but by Eru Ilúvatar himself. – Rad80 Nov 28 '18 at 22:02
  • @Rad80 do you have a source? I don't recall that in the books/appendicies/silmarilion but I haven't read any of the other books (e.g. unfinished tales). – Jared Smith Nov 28 '18 at 22:14
  • 15
    It's in Tolkien's letters, I found out from this answer: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/109214/was-gandalfs-resurrection-ever-explained-in-the-books – Rad80 Nov 28 '18 at 22:17
  • @Rad80 thanks, edited. – Jared Smith Nov 29 '18 at 12:28
8

I always saw sundering said staff as simply a sign of supremacy.

Saruman already outranked Gandalf when he defeated him. Breaking Gandalf's staff wouldn't serve any additional purpose; the higher-ranking wizard should have been expected to win anyway.

When Gandalf later defeats Saruman, Gandalf breaks the staff as a symbol that his power has become greater, and he assumes the dominant rank.

As to the staffs themselves... I think a wizard does gain benefit from their staff, but it's not because of power in the staff itself. It's merely the benefit you get from a tool that has become comfortable with long use, but still one you could make again if need be.

Joel Coehoorn
  • 3,189
  • 19
  • 21
6

Poetry and drama. Gandalf's line, "Saruman, your staff is broken," is the only quote I remember from The Two Towers. It is not a direct command, it is as just as much a comment on how the positions have changed between these two wizards as well as destructive magic.

The storyline now apparently finishes with Saruman and the struggle for Middle-earth now turns towards Mordor.

TheLethalCarrot
  • 143,332
  • 64
  • 808
  • 878
  • 1
    This, appears, to be an answer from an out of universe perspective whereas I got the impression the OP was after in universe answers. This is of course fine as an answer just though it was worth mentioning. – TheLethalCarrot Nov 28 '18 at 13:37
  • newbie here, thank you for a very the polite description of my post. Admiring the prose and atmosphere is the main way I enjoy Tolkien otherwise I just wonder why Frodo could not have made the outward journey by deus ex machina eagles. – narratorjay Dec 01 '18 at 13:59
5

Saruman didn't break the staff, because he managed to take it whole from Gandalf and kept it (check out the end of the fight where Saruman has both staffs).

When Gandalf flees Orthanc he does so without his staff (revisit the scene here) and later on gets another staff. This differs in the films from the books. The accounts of how he gets another staff in the movie universe differ a bit and maybe this is worth a separate question, but he clearly loses his staff in the fight with Saruman.

Somewhat authoritative sources for this answer are this IMDB FAQ (check out How did Gandalf get his staff back from Saruman? He simply leaps off of Orthanc without it) and the Lotr wiki.

The flight scene also shows that Saruman still hoped he could turn Gandalf until that moment, so it was reasonable to keep his staff intact, but out of reach of Gandalf. Also note that in the movie universe, wizards obviously can make use of the staffs of other wizards (perhaps less efficiently). So, even if he would not convince Gandalf it might be prudent to keep the staff just like you might keep a spare sword around, if you have it anyway.

DavidW
  • 128,443
  • 29
  • 545
  • 685
Frank Hopkins
  • 640
  • 4
  • 8
  • 10
    are we certain OP is asking about the films? Seems like it's re: the books – NKCampbell Nov 28 '18 at 19:32
  • @NKCampbell good point, for some reason I assumed it was clearly the movies, but you are right, there is no specific indication in that regard. Will see if I can later extend for the books. – Frank Hopkins Nov 28 '18 at 20:28
  • The last paragraph is the key part here, +1. Saruman wanted Gandalf's help and hoped he would come around after a night thinking about the looming alternative. – Nathan Hughes Nov 29 '18 at 14:30
2

It appears, from The Lord of the Rings books, that a wizard's staff is a method of channelling their respective energies.

For instance, in The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 1:

..."The figure lifted his arms and a light flashed from the staff that he wielded. A mighty eagle swept down and bore him away."...

In Book 2:

..."...he thrust the end of his staff into the midst of it. At once a great spout of green and blue flame sprang out,..."

There are also many mentions of Gandalf lighting the way through Moria using his staff, and guiding the party (using the staff as a beacon).

As pointed out by Victim of Circumstance, Gandalf strikes the bridge with his power, most likely channelled through his staff to a point of force at the staff's end, so much power that it destroyed the staff. user1643723 is absolutely right in his comment - there is a power there, but maybe not within the staff itself.

Later, in The Two Towers, Book 3, we find Gandalf in Edoras. Háma states:

"The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than just a prop for age."

There are many more references to the power of the staff throughout the books (a Kindle is a great resource!).

So, it could be that the wizard's staff is more than just an emblem of power - it could be a conduit to channel such power to a fine point, or a focus to bring that power to bear.

DavidW
  • 128,443
  • 29
  • 545
  • 685
Paul
  • 129
  • 5
0

It might be that Saruman, possessing the staff of Gandalf, could have more control over him. While Gandalf broke his staff since he did not care about having control over Saruman.