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In this question, we've learned about the difficulty for Elrond and/or Círdan to do anything amounting to taking the ring from Isildur, once the latter decided it was his loot. It seems they tried to convince Isildur to destroy the ring, acknowledging him to be the de jure owner of the object.

But how was it established that it was legal or natural for Isildur to become the new owner of the ring? Did not Elendil and Gil-Galad jointly incapacitate Sauron in duel? Did not Isildur simply step forth to an unconscious Sauron and cut the ring from his finger. Perhaps Isildur was just lucky to stand closer to the spot of the duel than Elrond & Círdan, thus allowing him to make that cut.

In his written account, Isildur seems to 'blow up' the importance of his cutting the ring from Sauron's hand ("Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?") and he adds that he lost his father and his brothers in the war and would keep the ring as a 'weregild'.

Of course, the elvish party in the war also suffered many casualties (although Gil-Galad, Oropher... were not directly related to either Elrond or Círdan, the latter may have loved Gil-Galad or other deceased members of the last alliance in the same way as Isildur loved his kin). If Elrond and Círdan had such a high stake in getting the ring destroyed: why did they not challenge Isildur's legal right to own the ring?

2 side-notes:

  1. I don't think that Isildur's claim and decision to keep the ring was a heat-of-the-moment event or decision. It is said in various places that the armies of the Last Alliance stayed in Mordor for some longer time to attempt to dismantle Barad-dûr and Sauron's realm at large. I can imagine the Númenórean and Elvish parties therefore remained in contact for some time after Sauron's fall and Isildur had plenty opportunity to reconsider/repent and there must have been sufficient time to raise questions of legality (and the elves may have urged him to?)

  2. The "Disaster of the Gladden Fields" chapter of the Unfinished Tales suggests that, if Isildur would not have been ambushed in the Gladden fields, he would have gone to Rivendell to surrender the ring to "the Keepers of the three":

"It needs one greater than I now know myself to be. My pride has fallen. It should go to the Keepers of the Three." (Isildur to Elendur)

(He attributes his change of mind not to any legal matters though. He rather states that "...I cannot use it. I dread the pain of touching it"). That chapter is however conceived by Tolkien as Gondorian in-universe-lore originating from eye-witness accounts of the Gladden fields disaster. One can imagine that the story was modified over the course of the Third and Fourth age to give an account where Isildur's conduct and thought is whitewashed.

DavidW
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  • So you think that the best plan (after defeating Sauron) should have been to have another war with the Elves? – Valorum Aug 20 '18 at 16:28
  • I know you've linked the question in your question, but it still seems very dupey indeed. – Valorum Aug 20 '18 at 16:30
  • I disagree. Also, I don't understand your first comment. – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 16:31
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    Challenging him to the possession would be tantamount to asking him to duel for it. – Valorum Aug 20 '18 at 16:32
  • Why? Why would a bonafide discussion on the matter be so difficult? Do you always duel when you challenge someone's ownership of some object? I thought the elves and men were friends and allies (although the alliance had become strained by that time) – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 16:42
  • When you are the king there is no legal question. Your word and actions are law, you decide what is legal. If Isildur says the ring is his it becomes his, because he is the king. The others may object but they are of a different nation and would have no legal say over Isildur. – svenvo7 Aug 20 '18 at 17:18
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    Despite the fact that there may be more secondary material on LOTR and its world than material that was intended to be published by the author, I'm not sure there's anything that digs as deep as would be necessary into the laws surrounding the claiming of recompense (or even booty) from a foe defeated by a force consisting of both elves and humans. And, if the intent of the other party would be to destroy the item involved, one might say that the person who wanted to keep it intact would have the strongest claim; the other party doesn't actually want it to keep, after all. – RDFozz Aug 20 '18 at 17:37
  • @Svenvo7: So you agree yourself that Isildur's title as king over the Númenorian nations is irrelevant for any transaction with the elvish nations. A question then arises about international customs and manners in the tolkien legendarium (as RDFozz already points out). As another example: if the white council don't reach unanimity on some question, what custom or rule do they use to take a decision? – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 17:42
  • Also read my comment on DaaaahWhoosh's answer: Isildur would not change in the blink of eye into such a blunt, uncounsellable, deaf-and-dumb guy. He was of noble Númenorean descent, probably intelligent, cultured and well-mannered. Though he must have made up his mind about keeping the ring, he will have given reaonable-sounding replies to Elrond and Círdan during their council. – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 17:53
  • @ThibautDemaerel How long did it take for Bilbo to decide the Ring was his, and be willing to cheat at the sacred riddle-game, and kill over the result, after he found it beneath the mountain? – Zeiss Ikon Aug 20 '18 at 17:55
  • @ZeissIkon and he’s a hobbit, extremely difficult to sway because they’re so content with life! Men are far easier to trick! – Edlothiad Aug 20 '18 at 18:14
  • @RDFozz that’s an excellent point. The HotLotR certainly would not go into such details because Tolkien had no cares for such details. He didn’t care about laws and economic policies, he cared about a world for his languages. – Edlothiad Aug 20 '18 at 18:15
  • @ThibautDemaerel I don't believe we will ever know. But I expect those councils are non-binding in all circumstances. And I believe Isildur's title as king is immensely relevant. It is because he is king that he can make the rules without legal repercussion. – svenvo7 Aug 20 '18 at 18:48

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The Elves already tried to talk Isildur out of taking the ring, and he didn't listen to them. Quoting from the question you linked to:

But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.

”This I will have as weregild for my father, and my brother,” he said; and therefore whether we would or no, he took it to treasure it.

Isildur isn't up for debate on this subject, he doesn't ask if the Elves want to take the ring or share it or anything, he just takes the ring for himself regardless of what the Elves want.

At that point, what can you do? What authority can you go to when you disagree with a king? No one had the power to tell Isildur he was wrong, except maybe the Valar or Eru himself, and none of them were hanging out in Middle-earth at that time.

Plus, note how things went down between Deagol and Smeagol a few centuries later. Even when they had a court they could've gone to to see who got to keep the ring, they never made it there. Smeagol killed his best friend and took the Ring for himself.

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DaaaahWhoosh
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    But Isildur is of noble Numénorean descent. Should we not assume he is much more cultured, knowledgeable and wel-mannered than the Stoors. Though the taking of the ring ensnares him, it is very implausible he would suddenly turn into some unreasonable, deaf tyrant in the blink of an eye. He must have answered Elrond's council with pseudo-reasonable-sounding answers – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 17:37
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    @ThibautDemaerel And so he did -- he claimed it as weregild. A higher claim (in that sort of society) would be difficult to imagine. – Zeiss Ikon Aug 20 '18 at 17:52
  • But he would know that Elrond or Círdan could equally well claim it as weregild for the loss of someone dear during the war (e.g. Gil-Galad, Oropher). So I presume he must have had a better argument? – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 17:55
  • @ThibautDemaerel the better argument is "I picked it up first". It's not much, but it is a good tiebreaker. – DaaaahWhoosh Aug 20 '18 at 17:58
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    Isildur is the one who claimed it by cutting Sauron's finger off and taking the ring. As long as no one had a stronger claim than Isildur's, and Isildur wasn't being greedy with other things, that would pretty much settle it. Isildur was the rightful king of the Numenoreans, and trying to deprive him of something he took and had a good right to (despite how bad an idea it was) could develop into a major diplomatic issue. – David Thornley Aug 20 '18 at 18:01
  • @ThibautDemaerel Not all Númenóreans were noble. Some were decidedly ignoble, which is why Númenor was destroyed. – Nicola Talbot Aug 20 '18 at 19:54
  • @Nicola Talbot: I didn't intend to couple the adjectives "noble" and "Númenorean": Isildur is both of "noble" and "Númenorean" descent. Certainly if you replace "Númenorean" by "faithful Númenorean" the adjective seems to be relevant in the present context. – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 20:10
  • " it is very implausible he would suddenly turn into some unreasonable, deaf tyrant". This is the Ring we are talking about here. – DJClayworth Aug 20 '18 at 21:06
  • @DJClayworth: The ring is very potent indeed and immediately ensnared Isildur. Its effects were however probably not that strong. After all, Isildur seems to have managed Gondor the next few years as quite an efficient and competent ruler. Also the "disaster of the gladden fields"-chapter in the unfinished tales sketches Isildur as a competent military commander with many friends (i.e. the ring did not yet estrange him from his kin by that time) – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 21:20
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    One of the very first effects of the ring is to make its owner reluctant to give it up. Deagol refused to give it as a birthday present mere minutes after finding it. My memory is that even Bilbo was reluctant to give up the ring very soon after he first acquired it. – DJClayworth Aug 20 '18 at 21:34
  • @David Thornly: and Isildur wasn't being greedy with other things. Do you suggest the elves were greedy in other areas after the war or they somehow got similar 'compensation' for their losses? Did not the elves cede the territory of Arnor to Elendil just before the war as a major gesture of "international goodwill"? So in the larger scheme of things: is it not the Dunedain which are rather indebted to the elves at that point in time than the other way around? – 5th decile Aug 20 '18 at 21:36
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    @Thibaur Demaerel They could be indebted as Gil-Galad sworn alliance with them and rendered great assistance after Sauron attacked Gondor, but previously in the second millenia of the Second Age, it were the Numenoreans who repeatedly saved Lindon and Eriador from the Enemy. So Isildur could easily have claimed that they were quit. – b.Lorenz Aug 21 '18 at 17:48