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In the novel The Hobbit, towards the start of the story Bilbo wishes Gandalf a good morning:

"Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat.

"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"

"All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain.

Now I've always found that dialogue strange, but likely an author of Tolkien's calibre doesn't put passages in for no reason. What is the purpose of this? What are we supposed to learn about the characters? That Gandalf is a pedant?

I'd be interested to hear insights.

Community
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Charlie
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    Why do you say "pedant" and not "would-be humourist" (who would be well advised to keep his night job of lighting fireworks)? Gandalf's repartee doesn't seem very funny to me, but the book was written for children. Anyway, does everything in a book have to have a Purpose, either to tell us something about the Characters, or to Advance the Plot, or give us some Insight into the Human Condition? Writing a children's book is not like designing a payload for a space mission. – user14111 Aug 25 '17 at 23:38
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    @user14111 I like to think everything Tolkien wrote added value to the narrative in some way, but it may not. But even saying what you did in the comment proves there was a little bit of a point to it: it demonstrates that Gandalf had a sense of humour; character building, I suppose. – Charlie Aug 25 '17 at 23:52
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    Wasn't The Hobbit originally for his kids? Having heard audio of Tolkien, i would have imagined that reading this to his young children in a gruff-ish voice, waggling of eyebrows included, would have raised a bit of a giggle among the young uns. No in depth analysis would have likely occurred. – Marakai Aug 26 '17 at 00:26
  • @Marakai perhaps you're right – Charlie Aug 26 '17 at 00:58
  • @user14111 Humorist, pedant, tomato, tomahto. – Spencer Aug 26 '17 at 01:19
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    @Spencer film Gandalf is a nice guy, book Gandalf is a douche. He can't seem to take a joke and is always acting like a school teacher. "Don't be so quick to deal out death in judgement" and all that. – Charlie Aug 26 '17 at 01:28
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    @Charlie - “Don’t be so quick to deal out death in judgement” actually sound like something a nice person might say. It’s the opposite one needs to worry about. ;) – Adamant Aug 26 '17 at 01:56
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    @Adamant not to mention he just left Thorin's Company without explaining where he was going. Oh and that scene in Fellowship where Frodo comes in one night and Gandalf's just standing in his front room saying "Is it secret? Is it safe?". If I was Frodo, I would have been like " Is this legal? " – Charlie Aug 26 '17 at 12:48
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    It sets up an longer play on the conventional phrase, with Gandalf finally remarking "What a lot of things you do use Good morning for!" said Gandalf. "Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off.” – jamesqf Aug 26 '17 at 17:11
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    @Charlie to which Gandalf would have thrown up his hood and growled, "I will make it legal" – Paul Aug 27 '17 at 03:28
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    @user14111 : Actually, ..., have you written a children's book? Everything is about reducing page count and text density. It's very like designing a space payload. For instance, a picture book has to fit in 32 pages . – Eric Towers Aug 27 '17 at 20:54
  • @EricTowers I have to admit that I have not written a children's book, and was ignorant of the restrictions on page count and text density. It's pure speculation on my part, but perhaps Tolkien was in the same boat when he made up that story for his children. The real question is not why Tolkien put that passage in The Hobbit, but why his editor didn't insist on removing it when the book was published. – user14111 Aug 27 '17 at 21:58
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    @EricTowers, wasn't Hobbit just a compilation of bedtime stories? So that's why it's so long, for there were many stories (each one is short and less than 32 pages). – user28434 Aug 28 '17 at 10:12
  • @user28434 I never heard that it was a compilation of bedtime stories... I'd love to see some source! – Olivier Dulac Aug 28 '17 at 10:56
  • @user28434 I was going to say the same thing - The Hobbit is purposefully very whimsical and there's a lot in there that could make a young child smile at the silliness of it. I think the "Good Morning" bit is certainly one of those. I read about it being a bedtime story in the preface of the 50th anniversary LOTR print I believe. – Aww_Geez Mar 24 '20 at 13:07
  • Wouldn't this be better on Writing.SE? It's not really about fantasy per se, it's about narrative purpose and style choices. – PlutoThePlanet Mar 24 '20 at 14:08
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    An author of tolkien's calibre doesnt put in passages for no reason? Have you read Lord of the Rings? Most of it is in there for no reason. I always took this abbott and costello routine as a british style irritant of some slapstick nature and proved if nothing else that tolkien was not a great writer, but a pretty good visionary. – Kai Qing Mar 24 '20 at 18:48

10 Answers10

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I think you are very close when you say it might be telling us that Gandalf is a pedant.

As this is at the start of the book, Tolkien is (as you suggest) introducing the characters to us. This is our first introduction to Gandalf, and I think the impression Tolkien wants us to get is that he:

  • Is surprising - he doesn't react the way you expect him to.
  • Takes seriously things that others consider trivial.
  • Likes to be precise when he speaks.
  • And, yes, is a pedant.

As Ghoti and Chips points out. The exchange also functions as lighthearted comedy.

Blackwood
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    Don't meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are pedantic and will correct your grammar? Or something like that. – Marakai Aug 26 '17 at 00:42
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    You hint at this in your second bullet-point but, to me, it reveals an otherworldly nature in Gandalf. The sort of person who doesn't react to "Good morning" by knowing what it means is probably unaware of social norms. This may be because they are not from here, or because they were otherwise very sheltered from socialisation - in either case, it indicates to the reader an otherworldliness that they should be suspicious of - it's a characterisation which helps reinforce that he is a wizard later on (the classic "show don't tell"). – Ghoti and Chips Aug 26 '17 at 07:32
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    Another point could be a simple, "Because it's funny". A comedic interchange between a hobbit and a wizard early on can help characterise both characters, will continue setting the light-hearted tone that the story takes this early on in the story, in The Shire, and superficially also simply entertains the reader. – Ghoti and Chips Aug 26 '17 at 07:34
  • @GhotiandChips Good point. It seems I take things too seriously. – Blackwood Aug 26 '17 at 12:11
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    Yay for pedantry! – Rand al'Thor Aug 26 '17 at 12:19
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    Another point (related to some of these but not quite the same): it helps establish the contrast between the peculiar, rather academic wizard and the simple down-to-earth hobbit. – PLL Aug 26 '17 at 21:56
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    It tells us to a lesser degree the opposite things about Bilbo at the same time. He is pretty laid back in the exchange. He doesn't bridle at Gandalf's pedantry. He doesn't mind the imprecision of alternate interpretations of "good morning". – Todd Wilcox Aug 26 '17 at 23:49
  • @GhotiandChips : "or because they were otherwise sheltered from socialization". Well, the Istari didn't grow up among mortals, so certainly not socialized that way. But sometimes I wonder if Gandalf and the others haven't been around so long that they have been burned by thinking they understood smalltalk even through great societal shifts in its meaning. Gandalf could just be listing the various ways that phrase has been used as smalltalk during his time on Arda. – Eric Towers Aug 27 '17 at 21:00
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In addition to showing Gandalf as a relatively unusual character, I think it also reveals that Bilbo is quite carefree and perhaps does not fully consider the weight of his words.

It also begins to introduce Bilbo as a hobbit who is well within his comfort zone and does not wish for any disruption to his carefree and relaxed life. This particular sentiment is reinforced later in their conversation:

"Good morning!" he said at last. "We don't want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water." By this he meant that the conversation was at an end.

Harrison Smith
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Out-of-universe, this indicates that J. R. R. Tolkien was the kind of person who likes wordplay. He was intensely interested in the origins of words and how they could be used. Which was probably why he spent part of his time writing dictionaries and part of his time making up languages. Writing stories was what he did since he didn't have any other way of getting people to pay attention to his conlangs.

In story terms, he was presumably trying to indicate that Bilbo and Gandalf shared his interest in wordplay.

He may also have had a goal of interesting others, especially children, in wordplay. Remember that Tolkien initially wrote The Hobbit for his own children. He shared it with his friends, like C. S. Lewis, and it eventually reached a publisher.

Consider Tolkien as Gandalf and one of his kids as Bilbo. Bilbo responded as Tolkien wanted his children to respond. Since most kids find Wizards cooler than fathers, couching this in story terms might be more effective than real world interactions.

Brythan
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  • Ahem, but he wrote (some of) his stories to give his languages a home. He shared his languages with close friends, but he preferred to keep the major body of Quenya private. Even now, only very few privileged scholars have access to the majority of his notes. He wrote the TLOTR on demand for a sequel to The Hobbit, and with it tied The Hobbit to Arda; there is some evidence that he never purposed the Silmarillion for publication. – can-ned_food Aug 29 '17 at 05:35
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"Good Morning!" said Bilbo,
 ...and he meant it.
 But Gandalf...
"What do you mean?

This is probably a literary device designed to act as a 'hook' to get the reader interested. The point was to cause a heartbeat worth of suspense: nice hobbit haplessly offends potent wizard.

But as the sentence finishes the reader realises with relief that:
1. Potent wizard is not at all offended by nice hobbit
2. They both enjoy playing games with semantics
3. They are old friends at ease with one another
4. Witty hobbit is witty (even with wise, old wizards)

elrond
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lpt
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    Change 3 as they've never met before – Charlie Aug 26 '17 at 14:17
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    @Carlie really? Not old friends, but Gandalf knew Bilbo from when he was younger, and Bilbo vaguely remembered Gandalf's fireworks (can't find exact reference atm) – David Roberts Aug 27 '17 at 03:34
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    @DavidRoberts my bad, they have met before. Bilbo remembers Gandalf, but they're certainly not old friends – Charlie Aug 28 '17 at 14:37
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    @Charlie and DavidRoberts, to be fair i probably had the equivalent scene from LOTR stronger in my head, since i just used it for a video editing assignment before school ended (so was thinking Gandalf 'n' Frodo) – lpt Aug 29 '17 at 03:01
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Gandalf arrives, intent on recruiting Bilbo as a burglar. To do this, Gandalf must more or less blast Bilbo out of his normal frame of reference. Bilbo's normal frame of reference is nearly completely one of complacent contentment with his situation. Gandalf needs to give Bilbo a shake and stir up the footnote to that contentment; Bilbo's (perhaps ancestral) curiosity and desire to leave his routine existence behind. Refusing to take 'good morning' at face value is his opening shot.

bmargulies
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  • Interesting :) Makes sense – Charlie Aug 28 '17 at 12:02
  • Actually, I think this is more of part of his interview process. He knew Bilbo's family history, and thought him a good prospect, but hadn't decided until after Bilbo's soliloquy about what he remembered about Gandalf. – Michael Foster Jul 27 '23 at 11:53
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Exploring the various meanings of words is a theme in The Hobbit and Tolkien's other books and studies. A related theme is the contrasting mindsets of the various characters, and this scene is an example of both, and also a way to naturally convey the personality of the characters.

And for people humored by and interested in words and the various ways they can be thought of, it's an entertaining, interesting exchange.

Of course, too, Gandalf is a wizard, and Tolkien's magic is often based in words, rules, and riddles. In order to discover and use magic, often it is necessary to remember the exact words and their specific meanings, as seen later in various inscriptions, some of which can only be read in moonlight on specific days, or only make sense in context, such as the doorway to Moria, without whose interpretation of specific meaning, the Fellowship might have been thwarted.

Bilbo too has his fate determined by his clever use and interpretation of words during the riddle game that wins him the ring (and which also drives the fate of the world in The Lord of the Rings).

The scene also conveys the usual mindset of hobbits (which leads into the recurring theme of Bilbo's thoughts and feelings as a reluctant adventurer), and Gandalf's moral code and thoughts about enlisting Bilbo.

Dronz
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    i remember reading that Tolkien was an avid student of semiotics, and the idea that all of his works are dialectic thinly disguised as fantasy fiction might be a hard assertion to refute. also totally agree that this scene acts as dramatic foreboding for the later revealing of Bilbo's world-saving talent for seeing the blatantly, if naively honest, interpretation of the password hint for the mines. – lpt Aug 27 '17 at 20:49
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    @lpt: Frodo's talent, I believe you meant. – Pieter Geerkens Aug 28 '17 at 02:36
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    @PieterGeerkens i did! i did mean Frodo! :P – lpt Aug 29 '17 at 02:56
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In The hobbit, these words may refer to riddles (that play on words). It is there to show that each word can have several meanings. Here Good morning can mean three things.

And riddles play a lot on that : a word can mean a lot of things and you may have to see it from an other point of view to get the answer.

Let's take one of the riddles for exemple

A box without hinges, key or lid, Yet golden treasure inside is hid.

I will not spoil the answer but it is not something you usally think as a box If you took an other approach on words, that you break it to see all the posibilities hidden by this word (like Gandalf did here), it can be seen as the answer to this riddle.

On an over hand (that's just me overthinking here) it may refer to Bilbo's lies and arrangement with truth. he meant it then What do you mean ?. And at some point, Bilbo hide the truth behind his words, saying Gollum offered the Ring to him (and it will be seen as a lie by Gandalf later)

The book exists in several versions. Tolkien rewrote some of it to keep it in line with The Lord Of The Rings, the first version being Bilbo's lie on the Ring influence and the second being the "truth".

Here we see Gandalf seeking the real meaning of Bilbo's words. In the LOTR, he seek the real meaning of Bilbo's story about the Ring (on this book The Hobbit) and his lies make Gandalf suspicious.

It also shows that Gandalf is looking for clear and precise answers.

user404
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    I don't understand how this is relevant to what the purpose of the dialogue was? Could you [edit] it to clarify it a bit? – Edlothiad Aug 26 '17 at 16:09
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    100% agree that the exchange was written to let the reader know that Gandalf perpetually views all things from all (im?)possible angles and as such approaches a kind of functional omniscience. not that he is aware of all things at once, but that he 'milks' every one of his own perceptions for every drop of data / insight / perspective / association it contains. – lpt Aug 27 '17 at 20:40
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There is power in the spoken word. As a wizard, constructing spells requires a precise definition and intent to achieve the desired outcome. Using a phrase for so many purposes would have been antithetical to a wizard such as Gandalf. "Say what you mean, mean what you say."

Bill S.
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It is completely in-character for both Bilbo and Gandalf. As mentioned in other answers, Bilbo meant it when he said "Good morning". Gandalf's reply is also consistent with his reply here:

‘Is that the person you are taking us to now?' they asked. ‘Couldn't you find someone more easy-tempered? Hadn't you better explain it all a bit clearer?' - and so on.

‘Yes it certainly is! No I could not! And I was explaining very carefully,' answered the wizard crossly.

Wizards are subtle, as famously noted. They are often also mysterious, and this kind of thing shows Gandalf is intended to be mysterious.

Michael Foster
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Tolkien was a linguist. He studied languages and even invented them for his books. Languages fascinated him. He was a huge nerd about languages. You know what nerds do when they're really into something?

They take every opportunity to be a little shit about it.

That's what Tolkien was doing here. He saw an expression he found odd, thought about all the ways in which it could possibly be construed, and made a joke about it.

He did this to amuse himself.

Farkas
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    Hi, welcome to SF&F. I'm not sure your language is firstly appropriate, and secondly, at all clear. In my experience that expression refers to someone being petty, discourteous and a bully. I don't really see how that applies in general to "nerds" (which is also a fairly derogatory term) or specifically to Tolkien or Gandalf. Your last line is an answer, but your argument could use some work. – DavidW Apr 27 '21 at 14:10