Did Gollum die happy?

Question

Did Gollum die happy when he had the Ring in his hand but at the same time was being consumed by lava?

Are there any traces on this topic in book or in the movie?

I can't imagine the term "happy" applies to that creepy smile you see in the movie... but whatever term would apply to drug addicts that are in the middle of OD'ing would. — Radhil, Jun 24 '17 at 12:19
Actually, "happily" is incorrect. That would imply that they way he died was happy, which it wasn't. The correct word is "happy" — caird coinheringaahing, Jun 24 '17 at 13:23
did he fall to his death happy? Possibly. Did he "die" happy while being boiled alive in molten lava. Not likely. — NKCampbell, Jun 24 '17 at 20:40
In a word: *no*. Gollum had not been happy for half a millennium. He was miserable with the Ring and hated it with all his heart, but also consumed by it and loved nothing else. That’s not happiness. — Janus Bahs Jacquet, Jun 24 '17 at 23:38
He fell to his death in the warm embrace of his addiction, about to release himself, and all others from its pursuit. I'd say that's the happiest death Gollum and Smeagol could have. — CDCM, Jun 25 '17 at 14:32

Valorum · Accepted Answer · 2017-06-24T20:17:09.553

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It's not especially clear in the book since we don't actually see his death. He's obviously delighted to have the ring back, but he doesn't seem happy about falling, nor the fact that he's landed in painful lava.

But Gollum, dancing like a mad thing, held aloft the ring, a finger still thrust within its circle. It shone now as if verily it was wrought of living fire. 'Precious, precious, precious!' Gollum cried. 'My Precious! O my Precious!' And with that, even as his eyes were lifted up to gloat on his prize, he stepped too far, toppled, wavered for a moment on the brink, and then with a shriek he fell. Out of the depths came his last wail —Precious—, and he was gone. There was a roar and a great confusion of noise. Fires leaped up and licked the roof.

_{^{LOTR: The Return of the King: Chapter 3 - Mount Doom}}

In the film it's much more unambiguous. Producer Barry Osborne, in the commentary track gives us an overview of the mental states that they asked Andy Serkis to portray;

There's a lot of drama that has to play out. He finally achieves this thing that he's been chasing all this time. And right at the moment that he acquires it, and is about to master it again, he realises it's betrayed him. To his death. And all that has to play out in his face while he's falling down this chasm towards this lava.

And even when he hits this lava, it's another one of these dramatic licenses that you have to take because if you were anywhere near real lava you would burn and it would obviously be very painful but we needed to allow Gollum the moment of realisation and the moment of the lava sort of engulfing him. And to have the pain be more of of his realisation of the betrayal more than the physical pain of the lava.

edited Jun 24 '17 at 20:17

answered Jun 24 '17 at 12:19

Valorum

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Re painful lava, a person falling into lava wouldn't have time to feel pain. – jamesqf Jun 24 '17 at 17:07
@jamesqf - Hollywood says that you're wrong; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01bex9Ejvg – Valorum Jun 24 '17 at 17:27
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@jamesqf If Mt. Doom were a normal volcano, I'm guessing the hot gases would have killed everyone inside without need for actually falling into the lava. – reirab Jun 24 '17 at 19:06
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The ring betrayed him? That part doesn't make sense to me. I suppose his greed betrayed him, but I don't think the ring had anything to do with him falling over the edge. – xdhmoore Jun 24 '17 at 20:11
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@xdhmoore In the sense that the Ring had accepted Frodo as master (and/or escaped towards Sauron), perhaps? Sméagol's entire outlook on life is that filthy thieves have stolen his precious and that's the root of all problems; it must be painful to realize that the Ring itself wanted to see other people the whole time. – melissa_boiko Jun 24 '17 at 20:59
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@xdhmoore Jacksonverse. There's a statement from Tolkien to the effect that Ilúvatar made Gollum trip. – Spencer Jun 24 '17 at 21:11
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@Spencer even in the movieverse, it doesn't make sense that the Ring's betrayal of Sméagol would be to make him fall in the magma, as this fall also causes the Ring itself to be destroyed (and Sauron's cause weakened). Nothing we know of the Ring's psychology suggests it would suicide. The Ring's betrayal of Sméagol must be something else, like it having rejected Sméagol as a master, or the fact that it caused its own escape out of Sméagol's hands. – melissa_boiko Jun 24 '17 at 21:20
@xdhmoore The Ring betrayed other people. It betrayed Isildur, and probably had betrayed Gollum long before Mount Doom. – DJClayworth Jun 25 '17 at 03:08
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@DJClayworth The Ring betrayed Isildur, it betrayed Gollum in the goblin tunnels when Bilbo found it, and several other people, all with the aim of helping Sauron one day regain the power he had vested in the Ring. If the Ring was trying to make anything happen in Mt Doom, it would have been delay at all cost (the wraiths started speeding towards the mountain to retrieve the Ring the instant Sauron realised where it actually was, but too late). It makes perfect sense for the Ring to betray Gollum. It doesn't make sense for it to betray him by making him fall with it into the lava. – Ben Jun 25 '17 at 05:14
@Valorum: Well, if you believe Hollywood, I'm sorry for you. – jamesqf Jun 25 '17 at 05:28
@reirab: Maybe not. After all, you can observe Kilauea's lava lake in reasonable safety: https://www.nps.gov/havo/planyourvisit/lava2.htm – jamesqf Jun 25 '17 at 05:34
@jamesqf I did exactly that last week. The closet you get to the actual lava it is a little over a mile (1.7 km) away on the upwind side. Even from that far away, it's still pretty awesome to see. But you'd be almost certain to die if you were in a mostly-enclosed cavern with it, as in the case of Mt. Doom. Also, even at a mile away, about half of the loop road around Kilauea's caldera is closed due to dangers from the gases. Even just beneath the surface a couple of miles away from the lava, there are 100 C pockets of hot gases near the steam vents. – reirab Jun 25 '17 at 06:02
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The 2nd highlighted section above may be what Osborne said, but it is completely wrong from a LOTR point of view. 1) Gollum never mastered the ring (nor did Bilbo or Frodo) Sauron is the Lord of the Ring. 2) The ring did not betray Gollum at this time, 3) The last thing The Ring would have wanted was to kill Gollum, who is a dependable set of legs with a weak mind, 4) That volcanic fire is the only place The Ring must avoid so that would not have been its method of murder. – Tony Ennis Jun 25 '17 at 14:40
@jamesqf: that may be true for Hawaii's volcanoes, but there are lots of volcanoes where you can climb into the cone and see lava from within a few hundred feet. See, for example, Erta Ale. – nomen Jun 25 '17 at 15:17
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@TonyEnnis Exactly. Everything you said. In particular, #1 also bothered me. It reminds me of when Pippin calls Frodo "The Lord of the Ring" and Gandalf rebukes him and says there is only one "Lord of the Ring". The idea of "mastery" of the Ring comes up in the book alot and it is repeated that only people like Gandalf or Galadriel could even attempt to master the ring, and only at the cost of themselves. I think the idea of Gollum having "mastery" over the Ring conflicts with the book's treatment of the Ring. Also, in my opinion, it's pretty clear that the Ring has total mastery over him. – xdhmoore Jun 25 '17 at 21:57
@reirab: As nomen says, there are volcanos where you (or at least researchers) can get close to the lava. You also have to remember that Sauron uses the volcano for his work, which is why there's a road and the access shaft in the first place. I think it's safe to assume that even if Sauron can deal with fumes &c, his assistants and flunkies can't, so the shaft is built with some sort of air flow to keep a tolerable environment. – jamesqf Jun 26 '17 at 05:50
I'm sorry that this gets repeated so often in these discussions, but I can't help but point out that lava is usually far too dense to sink into, and Gollum would have burned as he writhed on its surface. I cannot imagine happiness or contentment while being burned alive. – Quasi_Stomach Jun 27 '17 at 20:48
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@jamesqf When researchers go near lava, they wear protective equipment so that they're not breathing sulfuric acid. Even then, that's usually in the open air on top of the volcano, not in a mostly-enclosed chamber with a lava lake at the bottom, so the ambient temperature isn't anything near what it gets up to inside the volcano. Perhaps Sauron used his power to craft a magic HVAC system for the chamber, though. – reirab Jul 07 '17 at 07:42
@Quasi_Stomach: I would expect that it wouldn't be either sinking into lava or being burned alive. It would be more of an instantaneous steam explosion, much like quenching red-hot iron in water. However, remember that Tolkien does not describe what happens to Gollum (or the Ring), just that he falls off the edge into the depths, and then the mountain reacts by erupting. Presumably that's due to the release of the Ring's power: Gollum is irrelevant. – jamesqf Jul 08 '17 at 04:46
@boiko But Tolkien noted that if Sam had been kinder the way it ended would have been different and he'd suspect that Sméagol would have cast himself into the fire realising he couldn't have both the Ring and life. He'd also be doing his Master a service. If not and say Frodo had it he also gives a likely scenario. And to me that's a way of saying it's how he would have written it but he didn't because Sam didn't - and couldn't - understand the dynamic going on between Sméagol and Frodo at that point. – Pryftan Apr 11 '18 at 16:18
The absurdity of the film is that Frodo and Gollum have a physical altercation and not only does Gollum fall in but Frodo almost does too and is only saved by Sam. Gollum fell in almost immediately. And of course in the film Gollum bit the wrong finger off. I'm mixed however with seeing the way the Ring takes a moment to show the Black Speech writing and then finally is destroyed. I think it looks better than it might have otherwise but I can't compare so no idea. I do like the Ring though so probably do like that. But the rest of the scene is an unsurprising disappointment. – Pryftan Apr 11 '18 at 16:22
As for Gollum being happy I would say absolutely not. He loved and hated the Ring as he loved and hated himself. He wasn't happy at all. He was miserable. I would say too he didn't really have time to process - fully - that he was going to die. It would be interesting to know what Tolkien had thought on that but I don't think he did say anything on that matter just that it would have ended differently if Sam had understood Sméagol and Frodo's relationship better; but he didn't and Shelob's lair was inevitable as he put it. – Pryftan Apr 11 '18 at 16:25
@xdhmoore In the books the Ring absolutely made him fall over the edge, as commanded by Frodo. I seem to recall the essential scenes were left out of the movies. Suffice it to say, Gollum promised by the Ring, Frodo held him to it, then Frodo commanded that if Gollum touched him again he would be cast into Mount Doom, then Gollum attacked him. There are other answers on this site that also describe this, but I'm unable to find them at the moment. – Michael Foster Jul 31 '23 at 14:06

score 2 · Answer 2 · answered Oct 03 '18 at 02:40

I believe that Gollum died as Gollum lived: miserable and tormented. He was with the thing that he loathed more than anything in Arda. Unfortunately, Gollum would not have lived to see the Ring destroyed, though I am sure he likely died with a sense of momentary bliss in his toxic heart: the Precious was finally in his hand.

SMEAGOL on the other hand is another story entirely. Smeagol hated the Ring as much as (possible more than) Gollum did. This foul thing caused the murder of his friend and kin, and forced Smeagol (through Gollum) to taste the blood of children and to become reviled by all. Smeagol was likely not only happy that the Ring was to be destroyed, but that Gollum was to be destroyed as well. Also, he was likely to be relieved that he was to finally have peace in death. Five hundred years of forced loneliness, hatred, and sorrow makes one yearn for the embrace of sleep.

I not only think that Smeagol died happy, but that he died content. Knowing in that moment that this thing that had caused so much pain and suffering, not for just this poor creature but for all creatures, was about to be destroyed must have lifted a burden that only few in the history of Arda could have possibly known.

I hope this makes some semblance of sense.

score 0 · Answer 3 · edited Jul 25 '17 at 15:40

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I would say Gollum died very happy as he had the ring in his hands. Though he was about to fall into the hot lava and die he didn't even act as though he was scared and when he fell into the lava, he also did not act as though it was burning him, he just still looked very happy.

Which brings me to wondering if he felt the burning of the hot lava or not.... And why he seemed happy knowing he was going to die.

edited Jul 25 '17 at 15:40

Edlothiad

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answered Jul 25 '17 at 15:22

Emma owen

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Welcome to the site! This is a good start. I'd recommend finding a quote in the book or from the movie that shows gollum being inordinately happy considering his situation. You also say he looked happy, so perhaps you could find a frame from the film that shows this. – amflare Jul 25 '17 at 15:27
As Gandalf says in The Shadows of the Past: ‘You ought to begin to understand, Frodo, after all you have heard,’ said Gandalf. ‘He hated it and loved it, as he hated and loved himself. He could not get rid of it. He had no will left in the matter. That doesn't describe someone who is happy whether or not he had the Ring. Maybe it was a moment of excitement (and the text just after reclaiming the Ring suggests that too) but that's different. Either way though he hardly had a moment to truly grasp what was happening or how he truly felt. – Pryftan Apr 11 '18 at 16:31

Did Gollum die happy?

3 Answers3