How tall was the Balrog of Moria?

Question

I've read the relevant passages in the books but can't get a handle on just how tall Balrogs are meant to be. Specifically, how tall is the Balrog that Gandalf faces in Moria? The closest grasp I could get on the Balrog's size was in this excerpt:

What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater…
_{(Book Two, Chapter V, The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm).}

I'm not looking for a figure in feet and inches, obviously. But, very roughly, how big is the Balrog? The height of one Gandalf? Two? Three? The size of a troll? Or a small city?

I realise that the language used to describe the Balrog is deliberately rather abstract. Nevertheless, can anyone give me a more quantifiable answer when it comes to Balrog height?

I wouldn't put it past a Maiar to be able to change size at will. I seem to recall Gandalf did so when he got angry (though he didn't turn green). — DaaaahWhoosh, Mar 01 '17 at 14:59
@DanielRoseman Including wings, I suppose. Flying Balrogs can't gain the system, though. Balrogs must be stood on the ground in an upright position during measurement. — The Dark Lord, Mar 01 '17 at 15:34
@DanielRoseman is the wings thing not opening up a great big can of worms? — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 01 '17 at 17:02
AFAIK Tolkien also significantly changed his view of their power. In the beginning he considered armies of Balrogs (i.e. thousands of them around the world), but in his later writings he says that only a handful ever existed. — Bakuriu, Mar 01 '17 at 19:41
@CearonO'Flynn Case of wings of shapeshifter is so silly that It should be ignored altogether. — Mithoron, Mar 01 '17 at 20:30
@DaaaahWhoosh - that was by choice. After all... it's not easy being green. — Omegacron, Mar 01 '17 at 21:41
Is the balrog a shapeshifter though or is it just a massive lizard/dragon/fire demon monster thing? i never got the impression of "shape-shifter". — user64742, Mar 02 '17 at 06:33
this may explain the arbitrage of the Balrog's size in other adaptions of LOTR such as video and board games. In the Lord Of The Ring's conquest game, the Balrog appears to be the same height as in the Fellowship film (25-35 feet) but in the STB game by Game's Workshop the Balrog figurine is about 2.5 times taller than Aragorn, so about 15 feet — Jalapeno, Mar 02 '17 at 14:29

score 59 · Accepted Answer · answered Mar 01 '17 at 14:49

59

The size of Balrogs changed as Tolkien evolved his stories; in the Lost Tales they have a very specific size, but then when we next get a detailed description of the appearance of a Balrog, in the first draft of the Moria chapters, things are quite different:

A figure strode to the fissure, no more than man-high yet terror seemed to go before it. They could see the furnace-fire of its yellow eyes from afar; its arms were very long; it had a red [?tongue].

At some unspecified later time Tolkien added a note to this description:

Alter description of Balrog. It seemed to be of man's shape, but its form could not be plainly discerned. It felt larger than it looked.

This is obviously leading up to the final description which I'll quote in full:

Something was coming up behind them. What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and to go before it.

As well as a subsequent statement:

It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height...

The conclusion is evident: Tolkien is deliberately keeping the description of the Balrog vague and non-specific, so we cannot say anything more: "its form could not be plainly discerned".

answered Mar 01 '17 at 14:49

Victim of Circumstance

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You've posted two answers from two different accounts on the same day, consider merging your accounts! – Edlothiad Mar 01 '17 at 16:57
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+1, but it sounds like it's not the description that's vague and non-specific, so much as the Balrog itself. There's shadow stuff around it obscuring its size, and then at the end it gets bigger. – DCShannon Mar 01 '17 at 21:21
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@Edlothiad - this user has created many accounts to post different answers. They appear to be the same way as M.A.Golding,and don't want to register an account. – Mithical Mar 01 '17 at 23:46
According to the movies, the balrog was a massive shadow beast. However, from this first answer it almost sounds like the balrog is a man-beast projecting a massive shadow-fire form. Like an illusion or a magic shell. After all, the balrog is supposed to be an evil found deep in the depths. Perhaps it is a literal demon that has no form as it possessed Dwarfs and then grew to a massive size to assert dominance over everyone? This is also assuming that the balrog is a normal balrog too. This balrog might be ancient and therefore much more massive than the everyday balrog described below. – user64742 Mar 02 '17 at 06:32
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@TheGreatDuck Dwarves* and Balrogs were Maiar corrupted into Melkors service. The corrupted Maiar took physical form and weren't just "shadow demons". Balrogs are only found deep in the depths in the Third Age because the remaining few had gone into hiding after the fall of Melkor, the First Dark Lord, Sauron's master. This balrog was as ancient as his 6 brothers, although the idea of 7 was changed from having hundreds of Balrogs, however less powerful to the strength of the final 7. – Edlothiad Mar 02 '17 at 07:42
@Mithrandir M.A. Golding seems to have returned to using his original account, it would be a shame if possibly one of our biggest Tolkien experts didn't merge his accounts. – Edlothiad Mar 02 '17 at 07:44
@Edlothiad - I'm just saying that this is not a new member. For instance, go look at the question about how we know Shelob's name. – Mithical Mar 02 '17 at 08:01
@Mithrandir I'm aware he's not new, I'm just saying maybe there's some way to get him to merge, as with M.A.Golding, however as another user commented elsewhere, it is likely he wot return due to his Circumstance – Edlothiad Mar 02 '17 at 09:02
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Since the bridge can only be crossed single file, surely this gives some upper limit to the size of the Balrog, but I also think that a Balrog like that in the movies would have a really hard time fitting in most of the stairways made for Dwarves (i.e. the Endless Stair), which of course presumes that Dwarves did not make 20 foot ceilings in stairwells carved from living rock for no good reason. – Yorik Mar 02 '17 at 18:22
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Nothing in Tolkien's words there speak of the Balrog itself changing height; rather it's the viewers' perception of the Balrog's height. Just as Gandalf (noted elsewhere) appeared to grow taller, and Bilbo felt very small, the Balrog is perceived as being larger than its actual height. Maiar were created by Illuvatar just as Elves were, so it's very likely that all Maiar are just the same height as Elves, physically; but because of the potency of their power, they appear to lesser creatures as being much larger. – Rich Mar 02 '17 at 19:10
@Edlothiad Oh. I never realized that. I always got the impression that it was no so subtly implying that the dwarves had literally dug into Hell itself and unleashed demons. – user64742 Mar 03 '17 at 17:00
@TheGreatDuck when I'm back from dinner I'll link you some questions on Balrogs, they're my second favourite, after Ents! – Edlothiad Mar 03 '17 at 18:47
@Edlothiad what a long dinner. ;) – user64742 Mar 04 '17 at 18:06
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@TheGreatDuck I completely forgot, and am out again. Will set a reminder for later haha – Edlothiad Mar 04 '17 at 18:32
@TheGreatDuck A pretty good source on Durin's Bane giving a decent account of where he came from and how the Dwarves woke him. A few more I find interesting here, here (they're intereseting although nothin special and here. And an answer of my own, here – Edlothiad Mar 04 '17 at 23:31
Two more good analysis. But only if you happen to find Balrogs particularly interesting can be found here and here – Edlothiad Mar 04 '17 at 23:35
Never underestimate Peter Jackson's capacity for grasping a sword by the wrong end and using it like a club. – Misha R Sep 06 '22 at 13:34

score 36 · Answer 2 · edited Mar 06 '17 at 14:21

About twice the height of an Elf

Depending on you views of the canonicity of the Book of Lost Tales - they are basically the draft notes for the Silmarillion.

^{(Personally, if they are not contradicted by later canon I tend to take them at face value)}

Assuming that Balrogs are the same size the Balrogs at the Fall of Gondolin appeared to be of a consistent double elf height.

Then sprang the Balrog in the torment of his pain and fear full at Glorfindel, who stabbed like a dart of a snake; but he found only a shoulder, and was grappled, and they swayed to a fall upon the crag-top. Then Glorfindel's left hand sought a dirk, and this he thrust up that it pierced the Balrog's belly nigh his own face (for that demon was double his stature)
_{- The Book of Lost Tales - Part II - Gondolin}

Also from the Book of Lost Tales, when talking about the Fall of Gondolin:

Then leapt Ecthelion lord of the Fountain, fairest of the Noldoli, full at Gothmog even as he raised his whip, and his helm that had a spike upon it he drave into that evil breast, and he twined his legs about his foeman's thighs; and the Balrog yelled and fell forward; but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.
_{- The Book of Lost Tales - Part II - Gondolin}

Gothmog was obviously of a height that a severely injured Ecthelion was able to drive his spiked helm into his chest. Too much bigger than the elf and this wouldn't have been possible. Gothmog was also Lord of Balrogs so it could be expected and assumed that he would be one of, if not the, biggest of the Balrogs.

If the Balrogs were too big one would not expect Elves, nor a man sized Gandalf (though Maiar powers could be at play here), to be able to go toe to toe with them on numerous occasions.

For example, Fëanor was surrounded by Balrogs until he was eventually worn down:

and there issued from Angband Balrogs to aid them. There upon the confines of Dor Daedeloth, the land of Morgoth, Fëanor was surrounded, with few friends about him. Long he fought on, and undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds; but at the last he was smitten to the ground by Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, whom Ecthelion after slew in Gondolin.
_{- The Silmarillion - Of the Return of the Noldor}

The Balrogs were then driven off by Fëanor's sons.

Fingon was holding his own against Gothmog until he was assaulted from behind:

At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven.
_{- The Silmarillion - Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad}

Then you have Ecthelion and Glorfindel killing a Balrog each in the defence of Gondolin at the cost of both of their lives.

Admittedly Elves in those days were greater and capable of great feats, look at Fingolfin fighting Morgoth and wounding him several times, but there must still be a close enough difference in size for the combat to be realistic – otherwise the elves would have been overwhelmed by sheer brute force.

Possibly of interest

User Balfrog over at The Lord of The Rings Fanatics Plaza has worked out the Balrog's size based on the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm. I will try to summarise his calculations here in case of link death, however I am in no way trying to take ANY credit for this.

Gandalf stood in the middle of the 50 foot bridge, therefore he is 25 foot from the end of the bridge. The Balrog stops before stepping onto the bridge, putting it 25 foot from Gandalf. The Balrog steps onto the Bridge before swinging his sword at Gandalf (user Balfrog argues that this is just one step).

Therefore, the step had to have been half the bridge span minus the reach of the Balrog and its sword's (the reach was assumed to be the Balrogs height)

This gives the height of 16.7 foot. There would of course be a possibility of error based on size of the Balrog's sword, if they had to do a full stride etc.; adding 20% error either way gives a range between 13.36 foot and 20.04 foot.

Which puts it at somewhere between 2 and 3 times the size of an elf if we assume the elf average height to be around 6 foot.

Who does the 'his' refer to? I don't know the context of the passage. — The Dark Lord, Mar 01 '17 at 13:02
@TheDarkLord his refers to Glorfindel I have increased the quote to include this — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 01 '17 at 13:07
How tall were Elves in The Book of Lost Tales? Weren't they much shorter than they later became in later writings? — Wiles, Mar 01 '17 at 18:47
@Wiles I know in lost Tales he talks about how the now diminutive elves used to be great and mighty people, and these were the elves he wrote about. He used the term gnome for them sometimes as well, and was often wondering if elf, gnome or fairy should be their name. Maybe the use of gnome lead to the feeling they were of smaller stature? — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 01 '17 at 18:55
Combining these two answers, it kinda seems like the real answer is "Balrogs have no set form and can appear in a variety of sizes". — Tin Wizard, Mar 01 '17 at 21:25
Comparing balrog from Lost Tales and LotR isn't good idea, I'm afraid. — Mithoron, Mar 01 '17 at 23:05
@Mithoron sadly it's the only place that has a quantifiable size as per the OPs request, it's the best Tolkien has left us with. — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 01 '17 at 23:24
These are very early notes from Tolkien, I agree with Mithoron, we must remember that in the early stages of the writing there were hundreds of Balrogs. — Edlothiad, Mar 02 '17 at 07:43
@Edlothiad i do not dispute that these are early drafts, however the passages above are not explicitly contradicted by anything written later, due to the vagueness that Tolkien had later. Man-shaped but greater is the most description that we are given in pure canon which definitely doesnt go against twice elf size. — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 02 '17 at 08:46
I just thought I'd leave a note so other users less aware know of why the two answers may be so different, I didn't mean it as an attack on your answer — Edlothiad, Mar 02 '17 at 09:00
@Edlothiad no worries I appreciate the feedback, i've added my answer to hopefully flag the canonicity issue for those reading — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 02 '17 at 09:09
@CearonO'Flynn, good find, but I don't know. "stepped forward" could easily mean several steps, but interesting nonetheless :) — Edlothiad, Mar 03 '17 at 09:25
@Edlothiad - i know there is a lot of assumptions, on the actual page the user gives a fairly in depth reason why he believes it is one step. I think there are many assumptions made, but thought it was an interesting tidbit nonetheless — Cearon O'Flynn, Mar 03 '17 at 09:27
To be fair, I've heard that some of the users there have some of the broadest knowledge of Tolkien's works on the internet, so probably a reasonable assumption — Edlothiad, Mar 03 '17 at 11:57

How tall was the Balrog of Moria?

2 Answers2

About twice the height of an Elf

Possibly of interest

Linked