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OK, I understand that Obi-Wan turned into a force ghost when Vader struck him down, but why was Vader surprised by the lack of a body? It's not the transition into a force ghost but Vader's reaction that bugs me.

Hak316
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    Becoming a Force Ghost is an advanced technique known only to a few people, and Vader wasn't one of them. He didn't even know about the technique, let alone that Obi-Wan could do it. Wouldn't you be surprised if a body just disappeared in front of you? – Remy Lebeau Oct 31 '16 at 06:24
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    To add to that he'd also have to consider an impossible escape or some kind of (mind?) trick he isn't aware of. – Mario Oct 31 '16 at 06:58
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    That begs the question why Vader thinks he has beaten Obi Wan and does not belief that he escaped by some force trick. – Hothie Oct 31 '16 at 07:31
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    @Hothie because Vader is cocky? Or maybe he did suspect that but the Emperor told him about what had happened. – Bellerophon Oct 31 '16 at 07:58
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    @RemyLebeau: that doesn't make any sense. If he didn't know about the technique, and the span of time between the movies is only a few years, then how come he transformed into a force ghost himself (he is shown with Obi Wan and Yoda at the very end, when the survivors burn Vadar's body). Or is he just a quick learner, in between building Death Stars and invading rebel bases? – flith Oct 31 '16 at 13:09
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    @flith - That has actually been answered. http://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/45452/51379. P.S. The first answer is now Legends; the second one is probably right. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 13:18
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    I’ve always wondered more why Obi-Wan starts Force-Ghosting and vanishing before Vader even hits him… He essentially commits suicide, rather than allowing Vader to strike him down. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Oct 31 '16 at 19:53
  • @Hothie I imagine Vader felt Obi-Wan's physical death through the force. I'm sure the disappearance of the body was confusing but for someone who has killed as much as Vader, sensing death is routine. – svenvo7 Jul 23 '18 at 02:10

2 Answers2

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At the end of Revenge of the Sith (2005), Yoda talks to Obi-Wan Kenobi about meeting an old friend, his old master, Qui-Gon Jinn, who we know became a force ghost.

02:04:50 - Yoda: One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force.

02:04:53 - Yoda: Your old master.

02:04:56 - Obi-Wan: Qui-Gon?

02:05:00 - Yoda: How to commune with him I will teach you.

This is the first time, chronologically in the films, that the audience and any of the relevant main characters are introduced to the concept of force ghosts. Indeed Obi-Wan is surprised to hear about Qui-Gon in this scene.

Presumably, Anakin had also never heard of this concept of force ghosts before, or even if he did, at the very least could not fathom that Obi Wan could achieve such a feat. We can see from his reaction that he is unable to comprehend what just happened, he probably assumes that he defeated him, confused about the phenomena of the body disappearing, and later concludes that he died.

The following dialogue is from their lightsaber duel scene in Star Wars (1977).

01:27:08 - Ben: You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down...

01:27:12 - Ben: I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

01:27:22 - Vader: You should not have come back.

From Anakin's line (and his physical reaction, poking around the robes with his feet) there is evidence to suggest that he was, at least at the time, oblivious to the possibility of Obi-Wan becoming one with the force (turning into a force ghost).

Ghoti and Chips
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    Anakin wasn't around when Yoda talked to Obi-Wan about communicating with Qui-Gon. And even then, Obi-Wan didn't learn how to do it until after he and Yoda went into hiding, as that was one of the tasks Yoda set Obi to master while on Tatooine. – Remy Lebeau Oct 31 '16 at 16:22
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    @RemyLebeau "Anakin wasn't around" I never claim that he was. "Obi-Wan didn't learn how to do it until after he and Yoda went into hiding," I never claimed otherwise. – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 16:48
  • @RemyLebeau You must be confused. When I say "and the main characters (Obi-Wan, Anakin etc.)" I'm saying that it's the first time any of the relevant main characters (and then I give "Obi-Wan, Anakin etc." as examples) are ever informed about the concept of force ghosts – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 16:51
  • Anakin (and Obi-Wan) has actually spoken to Qui-Gon Jinn when on the planet Mortis and the Jedi (Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka) all seem to remember the events that take place when they are returned from the planet (Clone Wars - "Ghosts of Mortis"). While it is possible that Anakin may not remember talking to Qui-Gon (the Father wipes Anakin of some future visions, but it is unclear if he wipes Anakin's memory of speaking to Qui-Gon as well), Obi-Wan's memory should be unaffected. So, Episode 3 isn't the first canon encounter with Qui-Gon. – Ellesedil Oct 31 '16 at 17:21
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    @Ellesedil If you read carefully, I did make the effort of writing "chronologically in the films" when I said "This is the first time". So, while your comment is wonderfully accurate and elaborate, it's not valid when applied to my answer. – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 17:33
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    @Ellesedil - Good point! My take on that (the only one that I feel to be consistent with what Anakin said in “Sacrifice”) is that Anakin dismissed anything he though he had seen as a trick of the Son. He had reason to, since the Son had impersonated Shmi. Let me add that to my answer. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 17:33
  • @GhotiandChips: So, your answer is "film only", despite not being 100% accurate to canon? I think that should be clear, particularly since it is so highly upvoted. – Ellesedil Oct 31 '16 at 17:35
  • @Ellesedil Had I said "This is the first time, canonically" your feedback would have certainly been appropriate. However, I did make sure to consider only the films, chronologically, hence "chronologically in the films". – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 17:36
  • Right, that's fine. That phrase is half-way through your answer. I'm suggesting you make it more prominent (ideally, at the top of your answer) so that it is clear to everyone that this answer is based only on evidence found in the films and not on all sources of canon. – Ellesedil Oct 31 '16 at 17:39
  • @Ellesedil That phrase is there half-way through one of my lines of reasoning because that clarification (films only) is only relevant to that line of reasoning. Later, my second, more important conclusive line of reasoning is limited to the scene that the OP is directly referring to/asking about, which does not require such a clarification, so making such a distinct, dedicated "prominent" clarification at the top of my answer would only obfuscate matters, since it's a clarification only relevant to that one part of my answer. – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 17:46
  • Except your entire answer is based only on the primary films, which you are using to disregard canon information that contradicts some parts of your answer. I'm simply suggesting you make it clear to readers what view of canon your answer targets so that they are well informed instead of trying to figure it out while reading your answer. With 30+ upvotes, I'm holding your answer to a higher standard of clarity. Film-only answers are fine. Just be upfront about it. – Ellesedil Oct 31 '16 at 17:49
  • @Ellesedil Again (kinda repeating myself), the second (more important) closing half of my answer is accurate whether you take into account all the canon or film-only, therefore enveloping the whole answer as "film-only" would be an unnecessary false statement, since my second argument is not "film only" (it can be, if one wants, but it's equally valid when considering all the canon) – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 17:55
  • Ok then. Since this answer isn't targeting film-only canon, I'm downvoting because this answer does not attempt to explain how Anakin or Obi-Wan have both spoken with Qui-Gon Jinn's force ghost prior to episode 3 and yet still appear to be surprised by the concept. Other answers here attempt to explain this situation, and are more complete in my opinion. – Ellesedil Oct 31 '16 at 18:01
  • "Since this answer isn't targeting film-only canon" the part that relies on film-only canon is clarified with the "chronologically in the films", the rest of the answer is valid whether you consider all the canon or only the film canon (this would be the 3rd time I'm repeating this). "I'm downvoting " Go ahead, lol. – Ghoti and Chips Oct 31 '16 at 18:56
  • I feel like the "more powerful" thing is all being over-analyzed in all the wrong directions. Obi-Wan accepts his death and is simply pointing out that Vader's mind is closed off to the truth. It's a commentary on the Sith mindset; a last effort to awaken Vader. Vader equates death, even for Jedis, with total cessation, and so zero power. Therefore having literally any ability at all after death is more power than Vader can conceive. So, yes, "talking to a few people and giving them pep talks" is definitely "more powerful than [Vader] can imagine". – zibadawa timmy Nov 01 '16 at 09:43
  • @zibadawatimmy I'm failing to see how your criticism of over-analysis is relevant to my answer. – Ghoti and Chips Nov 01 '16 at 09:49
  • @GhotiandChips I'm noting the rather lengthy discussion on this and every other answer. Possibly I ended up typing it up on the one with the least focus on the whole "more powerful" business. – zibadawa timmy Nov 01 '16 at 10:13
  • @zibadawatimmy I see. Well, at any rate, if anything we are somewhat in agreement about Vader equating death with cessation. I only brought up the "more powerful" quote to add context to Vader's response "You should not have come back"; it reinforces my point where I suggest that Vader was, at the time, oblivious to any possibility of Obi-Wan becoming a force ghost, hence the poking around, and his line "You should not have come back" being totally inappropriate, had he been aware of what was about to happen. – Ghoti and Chips Nov 01 '16 at 10:21
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He didn’t understand what had happened

The knowledge of how to become a Force ghost was known to very few. Anakin certainly did not know it back during the Clone Wars era:

ANAKIN: Everything that we know about the Force tells us that an individual retaining their identity after death is impossible.

YODA: Everything that we know, yes. But what about what we know not? Hmm?

The Clone Wars: “Voices”

Qui-Gon learned it from the Force Priestesses, who had preserved this ancient art. Yoda learned it from Qui-Gon, with some help from the priestesses.

YODA: Now does my training begin?

PRIESTESS: The one you know as Qui-Gon Jinn will commune with you and guide your training. Like us, you shall learn to maintain your consciousness after death.

The Clone Wars : “Sacrifice”

If even Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi Order, was unaware of the possibility of becoming a Force ghost, surely Anakin, later Vader, also was. One might imagine that Palpatine might have told him, but Palpatine almost certainly was also unaware. Palpatine sought to cheat death, in the tradition of Darth Plagueis, but not by becoming a Force ghost: he wanted to make himself physically immortal and rule the temporal world. He wanted to control the midi-chlorians of life, not survive as a disembodied spirit and ultimately merge with the Cosmic Force. As Yoda says, after acquiring the knowledge of the Force Priestesses:

YODA: Yet, open to us, a path remains that unknown to the Sith is. Through this path, victory we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars but victory for all time.

The Clone Wars: “Sacrifice”

Vader’s behavior and words bear this out. He appears to be entirely unaware that Obi-Wan exists as a Force ghost, even as of The Empire Strikes Back. He believes that Obi-Wan can no longer help Luke, for example:

“He could destroy us,” the Emperor croaks.

For a moment, Vader does not speak. When he does, his rich voice is slow and deliberate. “He is just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.”

The Empire Strikes Back: So You Want to Be a Jedi?

He also claims that Obi-Wan was "destroyed" and that there is no life after death:

“Don’t let yourself be destroyed, as Obi-Wan did.”

Vader’s black helm shimmers in the dim light of the reactor core. His cape sways softly, like silk, with each step he takes. “Do not believe the Jedi lies. There is no life after death. There is only death.” Behind his mask, he is smiling. He must be.

The Empire Strikes Back: So You Want to Be a Jedi?

In particular, as Sith, both Vader and Palpatine believed that the Jedi belief in life after death (even as part of the Force) was mistaken. They didn’t even believe that one could become one with the Force, let alone retain one’s identity.

SITH: We are the Sith.

YODA: Afraid of you I am not.

SITH: We shall see. There is no life after death. Only nothingness awaits you, Jedi. Your fear feeds our hunger for power. They will know you are here. We will tell them. You will die and be nothing.

The Clone Wars: “Sacrifice”

Now, what did he think had happened? It’s not clear. Probably he could sense through the Force that Obi-Wan was no longer there, so he did not believe that he had, for example, turned invisible. He was surely too arrogant to believe that Obi-Wan had, as he suggested, become “more powerful than [he] could possibly imagine” (nor would he have understood what that meant, even if he credited it). Perhaps he believed that Obi-Wan had used some trick to destroy himself, committing suicide rather than let Darth Vader kill him.


One might recall that Qui-Gon Jinn appeared to Anakin in the Mortis arc of The Clone Wars, and wonder why this hadn’t convinced him of the possibility of survival as a Force spirit. In that same arc, though, the Son, a powerful entity of the Dark Side, had appeared to him in the form of his deceased mother, Shmi Skywalker! He (and even Ahsoka and Obi-Wan) would have had ample reason to suspect that the vision of Qui-Gon was simply the Son, Daughter, or Father appearing in a different form for their own goals. Even without this sort of thing going on, many Jedi suspected that Qui-Gon was a trick of the Sith when Yoda heard him.

Adamant
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    Obi-Wan, the ultimate troll. "All you ever wanted for your wife and you never got it, but I do! Woooooo" – Raystafarian Oct 31 '16 at 14:22
  • @Raystafarian - Immortality? – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 14:22
  • More of a joke. But all he was ever really after was not losing another loved one – Raystafarian Oct 31 '16 at 14:24
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    Actually, the suspicion is justified. Obi Wan claimed to become unbelievably powerful, yet, all we see is being capable of appearing and talking to Luke and Yoda. Before his death, he could talk to anyone… – Holger Oct 31 '16 at 14:49
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    @Holger - Whether he became unbelievably powerful is a matter of opinion. It depends greatly on one’s point of view, and hinges to a large extent on the difference between Jedi and Sith philosophy. Obi-Wan lost his physical form, and the ability to affect the material world directly. Consider, though, what he gained: the ability to survive after death, with his consciousness intact; the power to travel unseen anywhere in the galaxy; and of course, essentially invulnerability to harm or containment. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 14:52
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    @Holger He's one with the cosmic operating system. Even if he has limited ability to talk to people, he's got his very being directly interacting with machinery that knows the future and controls the universe. Suppose his influence is limited: Imagine if he has a 0.01% chance to influence one situation per day in the direction of the Light over Dark side. And he does this for 10 years, 1000, a million, a billion, or eternity. That is more power than Darth could possibly imagine, yet to a mortal it looks very much like he is doing nothing. – Yakk Oct 31 '16 at 15:06
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    I upvoted the question after reading the second quote, but then midi-chlorians. +0 – Mindwin Remember Monica Oct 31 '16 at 15:23
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    @Mindwin - I noticed. The midi-chlorians are part of canon, whether I (or you) like it or not. That’s what Palpatine wanted: to control the midi-chlorians of life like Plagueis and live for ever. It’s heavily implied by what he says in RoTS. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 15:23
  • @Adamant I'm surprised Square-Enix didn't sue Lucas for rippign off Parasyte Eve. – Mindwin Remember Monica Oct 31 '16 at 15:24
  • @Adamant: actually, he had the ability to “survive after death” already before his death, as otherwise, well, he didn’t survive. Similarly, when we consider the Force Ghost existence as immortal and invulnerable, he had that ability already before his death, as he would turn to this form regardless of when his other fleshy form cease to exist. Actually committing to death at this point didn’t add capabilities, he had the same capabilities when dying some years later or even waiting for dying of old age like Yoda did. – Holger Oct 31 '16 at 16:41
  • @Yakk: He didn’t appear to know the future in Episode V. Besides, if we assume that even the tiniest abilities will sum up over eternity, well, that’s a point, but then, it still makes no sense to tell Vader that Kenobi will become more powerful, if Vader kills him now, as Kenobi already learned to become a Force Ghost after death and dying some years earlier or later makes no difference when speaking of eternity. – Holger Oct 31 '16 at 16:50
  • @Holger - Sure, he could have become a Force ghost had he died of old age. But I’m not sure that invalidates what he was saying. If Vader struck him down, he would become a Force ghost, and thus more powerful (in his conception) than Vader could imagine. If Vader doesn’t, he won’t (but might later). Anyway, he wasn’t speaking so much of what he could do over eternity (in Legends, though perhaps not current canon, Force ghosts eventually dissipate), but in the current conflict. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 16:54
  • It’s like if someone says “If you drink poison, you’ll die.” Well, sure, you’ll die if you don’t drink poison, but it will take a lot longer, and your death can reasonably be attributed to the poison in the first case. Imagine if Obi-Wan had said “If you strike me down, I shall die.” It’s a similar turn of phrase. – Adamant Oct 31 '16 at 16:59
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    @Adamant: well, if Ob Wan said “If you strike me down, I shall die”, I suppose, Vader didn’t object. Perhaps that’s the whole misery, they didn’t try to find common ground: Obi Wan: “You can’t beat me, because I’ll be even more powerful after death. But you at least you can kill me” Vader: “Ok…, you might be more powerful after death, but at least you can’t hold a light saber nor make a mortal strike with it anymore, then.” Obi Wan: “Ok… that’s true, from a certain point of view” Luke: “Cookies anyone?” – Holger Oct 31 '16 at 17:42
  • @Holger Keep in mind Obi Wan's goals. He sought to help Luke become a Jedi, and in death, he succeeded. Perhaps what he accomplished he death, he couldn't have in life. After all, when you watch your mentor die and then he still teaches you, that's something to really cling to. – jpmc26 Nov 02 '16 at 01:44
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    @Holger He may have been trying for an intimidation rather than exposition. To the audience at the time the fact that he became a Force ghost - part of the energy of life and presumably able to affect it in some way - certainly made it seem as if he had gained great power. Really the more interesting question is how Annakin learned to duplicate the feat during the rest of his time as a Sith before returning to the Light in the last few seconds of his life. – Corey Nov 02 '16 at 04:59
  • @Corey I might attribute this to Anakin being a manifestation of the force. He had no father, but seems to be the result of the force manifesting as a human (perhaps a result of the experiments of Darth Plagueis) - So maybe this concentration of force was just so strong, it just kept consciousness after death (I imagine his force-field being to dense to dissipate on its own) – Falco Nov 02 '16 at 12:25
  • Didn't Anakin's memory get wiped after encountering Qui-Gon? – Tahlor May 15 '20 at 20:53