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For example:

"What is it?" she said. "Do zey want us back in ze Hall?"

What is zey, and what is ze? Are they French phoentic alphabets or what?

unor
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Shaun Zhang
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3 Answers3

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Rowling is using alternate spelling to bring across Fleur's accent. In English-speaking popular culture, it's common to stereotype French people speaking English as replacing voiced dental fricatives (the "th" in words like "this" and "the") with voiced alveolar sibilants ("z", as in "zoo")1. So "zey" and "ze" are meant to be understood as "they" and "the", respectively.

Using text to convey character accents and dialects is a common writer's trick that Rowling uses in other places, for example with Hagrid's thick West Country accent:

"S-s-sorry," sobbed Hagrid, taking out a large, spotted handkerchief and burying his face in it. "But I c-c-can't stand it - Lily an' James dead - an' poor little Harry off ter live with Muggles -"

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone Chapter 1: "The Boy Who Lived"

1 As multiple French-speakers have noted in assorted comments, this stereotype isn't baseless; French people generally do have trouble with the voiced dental fricative, as noted in Graham's answer

Community
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Jason Baker
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    http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/phonemes – FuzzyBoots Oct 27 '16 at 12:53
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    Fun fact: Transcription of atypical pronunciation is called "eye dialect." – MissMonicaE Oct 27 '16 at 14:55
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    In English-speaking popular culture, it's common to stereotype French people [...] => As a French, I would say the alternate spelling is spot on. I am sorry but that "th" sound just isn't coming out of my mouth :( – Matthieu M. Oct 27 '16 at 15:56
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    @MatthieuM. As an English-speaker who hasn't looked at French in ten years, I thought it was more politic to be charitable. In my (admittedly weak) defense, stereotypes usually develop for a reason – Jason Baker Oct 27 '16 at 16:13
  • Neither of the English th- sounds exist in French, that's why many of us can't say them. =) – Pwassonne Oct 27 '16 at 20:40
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    @MissMonicaE: That's true, but some caution is warranted, since for some reason, the term "eye dialect" is often specifically understood as referring to cases where the pronunciation is not atypical -- but merely rendered as if it were. (For example, a line of dialogue might have "wuz" rather than "was" in order to convey the speaker's hickishness or lack of education or whatnot, even though /wʌz/ is actually the standard pronunciation.) – ruakh Oct 27 '16 at 20:43
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    @ruakh Thanks! I didn't know that. – MissMonicaE Oct 27 '16 at 20:47
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    @MatthieuM. - don't feel bad. It's equally challenging to Russian native speakers - i'm STILL struggling with some words that contain TH and S together ("thousands"/"thousandth"), and i've spoken English for longer than Russian at this point in life. – DVK-on-Ahch-To Oct 28 '16 at 18:32
  • @DVK I don’t think anyone will blame you for being unable to accurately enunciate “the sixths and the sixth thousandths”. ;-) – Janus Bahs Jacquet Oct 29 '16 at 10:54
  • For a great example of "eye dialect" from the other side of the pond, check out Marietta Holley's political/social satire novels from the late 1800's, where she wuz tellin' jokes about them creeters in Congress. The novels are entirely written in this eye dialect to represent that the author is supposed to be a rural farmwife who doesn't have as much schooling as many others do. – Robert Columbia Oct 29 '16 at 14:26
  • @MatthieuM. It's really English that's special here - there's only a couple of languages that have the two phonemes (Arabic and Spanish come to mind). The funny part is that there's so many variations on mispronunciation based on your native language - zey, dey, tsey, sey... – Luaan Oct 30 '16 at 08:45
  • Actually I don’t find Hagrid’s accent all that typical of the West Country, certainly not a broad Devonshire accent. – PJTraill Feb 12 '19 at 14:57
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The phoneme "th" is not a regular part of the French language. Since French speakers never use that phoneme, they are generally unable to say it. Losing phonemes starts at a pre-verbal level of childhood development, so this is common to everyone who speaks French.

For a similar example in English, many English speakers are unable to pronounce a French rolled "r", because English does not use it; and distinguishing between the two different ways that Finnish uses a rolled "r" (depending on which part of the tongue produces the rolled effect) is even harder.

Of course it is possible to learn the correct pronunciation with a great deal of effort, just as it is possible to learn a new language as an adult with a great deal of effort.

Graham
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    And I thought Finnish grammar was hard enough :) – chepner Oct 27 '16 at 13:53
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    @chepner I only met Finnish briefly on a business trip, so I never got as far as grammar. The Finns had a lot of fun with me trying to read the menu! "No, you say it like that." "I did." "No, you didn't roll the R." "Like this?" "No, you need to use the sides of your tongue." "WTF...?" – Graham Oct 27 '16 at 14:15
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    I'm being too hard on the grammar. Lots of cases, but no gender differences to compound the issue. As someone who has only ever tried to read/write Finnish, I wasn't aware of multiple 'r' phonemes. Your experience mirrors the Russian class I took in college; I never could pronounce ы correctly. – chepner Oct 27 '16 at 14:19
  • @chepner Yep, that's an extremely common one for English speakers to have difficulty with. I've had some success training people to do it by explaining that "ы" is the sound you briefly make when saying "we", as you transition from the "w" to the "e" sounds. – mtraceur Oct 28 '16 at 06:56
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    The phoneme "th" is not a regular part of the French language Or afaik most European languages; Germans have the same problem. – TaW Oct 28 '16 at 12:59
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    I've found that if you want to improve your skill in pronouncing language X, listen to native speakers of that language when they are speaking your native tongue. Imitate that accent when speaking language X. – EvilSnack Oct 28 '16 at 13:29
  • I don't see the part of the linked Wiki article describing phoneme loss, although section 1.2.1.4 ("Reduplicated babbling") does mention that the types of phonemes used by infants tends to depend on their caretakers' language. Could you point out what you're referring to, specifically? – Kyle Strand Oct 28 '16 at 19:10
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    There aren’t two different rolled /r/’s in Finnish. The rhotic situation in Finnish is essentially the same as in Spanish. Phonemically, /r/ can be long or short like any other consonant; phonetically, short /r/ (written ⟨r⟩) is a tapped [ɾ], while long /rː/ (written ⟨rr⟩) is a trilled [r]. In some positions (e.g., initially, before /h/ or a plosive), there is some vacillation between [ɾ] and [r]. Both allophones are produced with the same part of the tongue, though—the Finns who were having fun with your Finnish pronunciation were clearly not phoneticians. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Oct 29 '16 at 10:45
  • @TaW - yes, but then again it's so common in [Castillian] Spanish that sometimes I wonder how native speakers manage to avoid always using it instead of a soft "c" when required... – Periata Breatta Oct 29 '16 at 13:46
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    A major reason why Finnish is so hard is that it is a Uralic language. By contrast, English, French, and Russian are worlds closer to each other as they are all belong to the Indo-European language family and have inherited similar grammar and vocabulary structures. Hungarian and Estonian are also Uralic languages and look similarly non-Indo-European. – Robert Columbia Oct 29 '16 at 14:31
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    Just because they don't use it doesn't mean they can't make that sound. True, it is a foreign sound to them, however, they have very similar tongues, lips and mouths in general to any other humans. It's more a matter of listening. A French friend of mine won't (not can't) say 'Thursday'. She says 'day before Friday' instead. – Tim Oct 29 '16 at 14:32
  • @JanusBahsJacquet I'll take your word for it, not actually being a Finnish speaker. :) Like I said, they were quite specific about having to use the sides of the tongue. – Graham Oct 31 '16 at 11:55
  • @Tim That's only half true. Yes, the physiology is the same; but the ability to use that physiology in the right way to produce sounds is something that takes practice. In general it's an immense disadvantage if that practice doesn't occur before a certain age when your brain becomes limited to perceiving distinctions in the sounds found in your own language(s). To many people, the fact that a sound doesn't exist in their own language does really mean that they are incapable of producing that sound without an awful lot of targeted training. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Oct 31 '16 at 12:19
  • @Tim Like any other movement, it's learnt - and the older you learn it, the harder it is to learn and the less instinctive it is to do. As far as listening goes though, if you aren't used to listening for a sound then you may literally not perceive a difference. – Graham Oct 31 '16 at 13:10
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In addition to Jason Baker's excellent answer, I wanted to add that J.K. Rowling worked as a French instructor for several years prior to writing the Harry Potter series; Fleur's accent is, as noted, phonetic to a point, and I would imagine basically authentic, based on J.K. Rowling's knowledge of the French language. I will update this answer if I can find additional confirmation of my assertion.

Slytherincess
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat, where you can all continue discussing the English-speaking skills of French people for as long as you like. – Rand al'Thor Oct 28 '16 at 11:59