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Spoilers Alert!!!

Bran sees that Jon is the son of Lyanna at Tower of Joy.

However, People of the north won't just believe words.

Howland Reed was with Eddard at the tower, Eddard is dead, but Howland could be alive. Even if Howland Reed comes forth and tells Jon's true lineage. It will still be just words.

Why would the people believe the words of a child and an old man?

Aegon
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j4rey
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  • We also saw a midwife/servant in that tower. – LisaMM Jun 28 '16 at 14:24
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    Historically, and in GoT, a claim of title is just something to hang your rhetorical hat on while the true decision is being made upon the field of battle. So how legitimate his claim may be is completely secondary to the fact of whether or not he can make one. – T.E.D. Jun 28 '16 at 15:57
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    This is an era of no digital media and no formalized medical records. Anyone's claim of anything is pretty much based on someone's word, alone. But, yes, I can see people being skeptical of a claim based on a greenseer, mostly. – PoloHoleSet Jun 28 '16 at 16:03
  • What @Andrew said. Short of a blood test to disprove a certain parentage or an actual DNA test (and it would be a fairly big plot twist if they turned out to have those in GoT suddenly), there is no tangible way to prove anyone’s lineage or parentage. It will always be just words. That's how, even in our world, so many people can grow up without finding out they're adopted. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Jun 29 '16 at 05:33
  • Side note: Some die-hard fans read Lyanna's lips during that scene. Turns out Jon's real name is "Jaehaerys". – burcu Jul 01 '16 at 06:39
  • @JanusBahsJacquet What if he were to walk through a fire? – Federico Poloni Jul 01 '16 at 18:39
  • @FedericoPoloni That would presumably strongly indicate that he was related to the Targaryens; but it wouldn't actually prove anything as such (it could just be a freak coincidence), and it wouldn't say anything about who either of his parents were, specifically. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Jul 02 '16 at 21:47
  • Strongly related: Who knows the truth about Jon Snow's parentage (father & mother) – Möoz Oct 18 '17 at 00:39
  • Didn't Sam tell Jon that he worked it out in addition to "whatever Bran has?" I don't think we've seen Sam's research, but one would imagine he could present it if asked. – Misha R Apr 21 '19 at 23:05

4 Answers4

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Howland Reed is alive. He is the last survivor of the Tower of Joy and knows what transpired there. He has kept this a secret due to his loyalty and friendship with Eddard Stark.

But as you correctly note, cynical lords won't believe word of one man. Outside North it would be even more complicated because Reed is a Crannogman who are not viewed favorably in the South.

Besides, If Jon is a Targaryen and son of Prince of Dragonstone, Rhaegar Targaryen, that's a concern for whole realm, not just the North.

By law, (If Lyanna and Rhaegar married, which we do not know they did, see update below.), a grandson (Jon) by eldest son (Rhaegar) comes before a daughter (Daenerys) in succession for a King (Aerys II). If Jon is not a bastard, he is infact the rightful King of Westeros as heir of the mad King, not just North.

Even though there is no Polygamy in faith of the seven, Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel practiced it. Quoting GRRM:

[Questions concerning Targaryen polygamy.]

Maegor the Cruel has multiple wives, from lines outside his own, so there was and is precedent. However, the extent to which the Targaryen kings could defy convention, the Faith, and the opinions of the other lords decreased markedly after they no longer had dragons. If you have a dragon, you can have as many wives as you want, and people are less likely to object.

So Rhaegar could be married to both Elia and Lyanna simultaneously.

There is no tangible proof for Jon's parentage because only these people were present at the tower or knew about it or possibly knew about it:

  1. Eddard Stark (Dead)
  2. Howland Reed (Alive)
  3. Lyanna Stark (Dead)
  4. Arthur Dayne (Dead)
  5. Gerold Hightower (Dead)
  6. 4 unnamed Northmen (Dead)
  7. 2 unnamed Dornish girls (Fate unknown)
  8. Oswell Whent (Dead)
  9. Rhaegar Targaryen (Died at Trident before Tower of Joy Showdown)
  10. Elia Martell (Died at KL before ToJ showdown, She may not have known anything)

(One can argue that two other members of KG namely Prince Lewyn Martell and Ser Jonothor Darry may have known as well but it appears Prince Rhaegar did not confide in all the KG. Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Jaime Lannister did not know about it despite being members of KG. In any case, Both Lewyn and Jonothor died as well)

Another thing, unrelated to the show but relevant to the books, is George has stated that Meera and Jojen Reed might know something about what transpired in the Tower of Joy.

Anyways, Since all other witnesses are dead, Even if the two girls are alive and add their voice to Reed's, that still won't be enough proof. Besides, Jon does not look like your typical Targaryen but that is the case with many of the half-Targaryens over the history e.g. Prince Baelor Breakspear, Prince Valar, Prince Daeron the drunken, Aegor Rivers etc.

Eddard had fabricated the story of fathering Jon on a common woman named Wylla. If she can be found, investigating her would also prove Jon is not son of Eddard Stark but her whereabouts and status is unknown in Show, while in Books she was a serving woman in Castle of Lord Dayne.

To prove his Targaryen blood, Jon will have to do something which only a Targaryen can do. That is, Riding a dragon. As it happens, Daenerys is on her way to Westeros with her Dragons. Drogon is claimed by Daenerys but Viserion and Rhaegel are up for the taking. If Jon manages to claim one of them, no one will be able to doubt his Dragon blood.

There is also the the possibility of Bran adding his voice to Reed's. The whole issue will come up only if Bran does that. Otherwise, Jon is now the White wolf for the realm, not the white Dragon. Bran is not just a boy, If he returns to inform the realm about this, he is the eldest surviving son of Lord Eddard Stark, thus rightful King in the North. Lords have given their allegiance to a bastard instead of a trueborn Stark female, but will they keep Jon as King when their trueborn male Stark liege lord returns? Would Jon want to keep the seat which is rightfully Bran's? I don't believe so. Apparently, as of Season 7, Bran doesn't want to take his rightful place and Jon remains King in the North.

TL;DR No there is no other proof of Jon's parentage except Reed's word.

UPDATE: As of Season 7 Episode 5, it has been confirmed that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was anulled and he married another which can be no one other than Lyanna. That makes Jon a legitimate Targaryen and therefore the rightful owner of the Iron Throne of Aegon the Conqueror. The records of the High Septon can be produced as evidence for Lyanna's marriage to Rhaegar but that still won't prove Jon is their child.

Aegon
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    Did Jon lose his claim to the throne when he took The Black? If so, would fulfilling his vows (his watch was ended) somehow restore that claim? Seems like an unprecedented situation in many ways. – Todd Wilcox Jun 28 '16 at 12:34
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    @ToddWilcox Those who will believe that his watch has ended will also believe that he once again has a claim. It was his vows that stopped him from claiming or holding lands. Now that vows are done, there is no reason to think he no longer has a claim. Plus if he is a bastard of Rhaegar, he has no claim at all. Jaime has also been released from his vows as KG thus stands to inherit Westerlands from Cersei. – Aegon Jun 28 '16 at 12:39
  • In the books there's also Jon Cottington. He was Rhaegar's best friend so it's very likely that he would know of the secret romance. Also since Snow's claim would only be valid if he was not born a bastard, the septon that married r&l could surface. – yinzanat Jun 28 '16 at 13:02
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    @yinzanat Not necessarily. Robb Stark probably issued a decree legitimising Jon before his death, and if it was phrased "Jon Snow is the legitimate son of his father" and not "Jon Snow is the legitimate son of Eddard Stark" then it may accidentally legitimise him as a Targaryen. – Mike Scott Jun 28 '16 at 13:07
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    @MikeScott Yes but that would be books only scenario. In show, Robb never issued such an edict IIRC. – Aegon Jun 28 '16 at 13:47
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    Sam being at the Maester's Tower and Library could really come into play here. – user001 Jun 28 '16 at 13:56
  • But will the north follow a cripple over a blooded, able-bodied man? And would Bran attempt to usurp his brother? (I think the answer is no to both, but that's opinion). – Deacon Apr 06 '17 at 11:53
  • @DougR Usurping is defined as take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force. IF Jon is not a son of Eddard nor the elder brother of Bran, then he has no legal right to the position in the first place, which makes Bran the only legal claimaint therefore no usurping would be done. Bran being disabled doesn't come into it. There's precedence for disabled Kings ruling even in our own world, which provides basis for Westeros. As already said, the whole issue will come up only if Bran brings it up. If he chooses not to claim his position, who will know? – Aegon Apr 06 '17 at 11:59
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    @Aegon - I chose the word carefully. In medieval politics, power and possession frequently define who the "legitimate" holder of the office is. Currently, Jon Snow is King of the North by virtue of the facts that he's proclaimed himself to be and has the support of his liege-men. While there is precedence for disabled kings in our world, who are the liege-men going to follow in a time of war. As Jon Snow is the recognized king, Bran would be an usurper if he asserted his claim. But I fully agree - this is only an issue if Bran makes it so, which I don't believe he would, so it's moot. – Deacon Apr 06 '17 at 12:19
  • @DougR. As they say in the ASOIAF, "Power is where men believe it resides". So of course there is that and I agree with you. But when discussing Westeros, we have to bear in mind the deep mistrust and outright hatred of Bastards that is a part of Westerosi culture. They consider them to be evil, treacherous, traitors and vile. Surely a bastard would be the last person Westerosi would look towards as their King. But since TV show crowned Jon regardless, I guess it's pointless to consider the cultural stigma attached to bastardy – Aegon Apr 06 '17 at 12:23
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    @Aegon - I couldn't agree with that last point more. The TV show may have crowned him regardless, but I believe this reflects Mr. Martin's initial intent, since it's such a major plot point. IMO in time of peace, Jon Snow could never have been acknowledged as KotN without a proper decree of legitimacy. But under the circumstances, the northmen were looking for a link to the old line of kings, and so they were willing to follow him. – Deacon Apr 06 '17 at 12:29
  • @Aegon Since you mentioned that Jon Snow could only proves he has Targaryen blood by riding a dragon, I think it is right to say that he could have some Targaryen-related power like unfear of fire as well. I believe that at some points in the show, Jon would be in a situation where the truth will be revealed about his origins, either attempting to be burned alive or riding a dragon (during a battle why not ? let's give it a shot!). In any case, it would make him the rightful king of the realm. But not sure that Danny would appreciate this... – KazerKrin Jul 25 '17 at 12:48
  • Remember what Daenerys told to Varys about traitors who serves another king. For some reasons, They couldn't agree about how to proceed (Danny wants Jon's army to go south, Jon wants Danny's army to go north). Jon could likely end up burned alive by the mother of dragons, revealing his true nature to her. – KazerKrin Jul 25 '17 at 12:56
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    @KazerKin in the books, Targaryen folks aren't immune to fire. In the books and the show, Jon has already been burned (hand when killing the wight in season 1). – Paul Apr 20 '18 at 19:59
  • Regarding Jojen and Meera, isn't Jojen dead in both places? So just Meera, then. – Paul Apr 20 '18 at 20:00
  • @Paul Nopes, show heresy. He's alive albeit depressed in the books – Aegon Apr 21 '18 at 07:07
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As of Season 7, Episode 5, Eastwatch the ways of being proven are adding up (as you have duly noted yourself).

  1. Howland Reed, being present at the Tower of Joy has first account of what transpired. The proof is that he is well respected noble lord and has no reason to lie about such things as he was on the opposing side of the Targaryen's during the rebellion.
  2. Brandon Stark has "green-seer" vision in which he has ascertained this information. The proof is a bit harder here as magic is going to be looked on with a certain degree of skepticism. However, if Bran can prove he knows other things (e.g. "Chaos is a ladder) that he would no other way of knowing, people may tend to believe him.
  3. High Septon Maynard issued an annulment of Prince Rhaegar's marriage. While we do not 100% know, yet, that this means he married Lyanna Stark, all arrows point in the right direction. This is crucial as it wasn't just any old Septon, but The High Septon! This lends the religious authority to have Jon be a legitimate Targaryen. Even though the Sept of Baelor was destroyed, the Faith of the Seven is still the dominate religion in Westeros. Cersei may not want to hear it, but many lords and common folk will take the record seriously.
  4. Jon being "dragon sensitive". I think we saw some this in S7E5 as well, when Daenerys returns to Dragonstone and Jon reaches out to Drogon. This is more speculative than the rest at this point, but seems like it will pan out. It is generally accepted that you need the blood of Old Valyria (i.e. Targaryen) to have this affinity with dragons.

All of this combined would likely convince enough of the lords of Westeros to ultimately believe in Jon's claim... and if not Jon's side has dragons...

Skooba
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I think that in season 7 or 8 Jon will display some dragon ability (what else is there besides partial/occasional fire immunity?) which will remove all doubt that he is a Targaryen.

My bet is that the dragons will show some kind of kinship with him, treat him like family.

Arend
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I just realized after reading your question that she also mentions that "Robert will kill him if he finds out". Considering that, at this time the Baratheons were fighting against the Targaryens, does this mean they just revealed his Targaryen blood line? Didn't even think about that until just now!

Edit: Thanks for the recommendation to the commenter below, and yes technically there is now tangible evidence, if you accept Game of Thrones twitter as physical evidence:

https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/747896544536465409

Game of thrones Twitter "confirms" Jon's targaryen heritage

Another result from Siri reads

To know the history, you'll need to do the math: R+L=J

Hope this will help answer the question at least in an overall sense, for the TV show, for the books, we may never know … until George finishes the books that is.

unor
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Adam Pine
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