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I just thought of something that I had never considered before in Harry Potter (actually it was my wife's idea, so if you find this interesting I give her full credit).

Was Scabbers in Ron's pocket during the Christmas feast in the 3rd book? If so, then 13 were dining together when Trelawney entered the room and Dumbledore rose to greet her, and thus she foreshadowed his death three books ahead of time.

This is the case, because Trelawney of course says (I'll paraphrase, because I don't have the book on me) "When thirteen dine, the first to rise is the first to die". Trelawney said this, because she thought that only twelve were dining at her arrival and didn't want to make the total thirteen. However, if Pettigrew were there then thirteen would have already been at the dining table when Dumbledore rose to greet her.

I think this is plausible and interesting because actually, quite a few things that Trelawney says comes true in the books even if it's not how the reader would expect. Except for her ridiculous things she predicts about Harry's death every class, she says almost entirely true predictions.

For example, she predicts correctly twice with her cards in the sixth book, once with Harry hiding behind a statue of armor, once with the lightning struck tower. Not to mention the several at the beginning of the third book that spooks the students.

Rowling also uses "fake" divination to foreshadow events. For instance, Harry and Ron's dream diary starts off foreshadowing the three Triwizard tasks. I thought this might have been another one of those times that I didn't pick up on before.

Since Ron carries Scabbers around most of the time, I figured it was likely. Is there any evidence in the book(s) about this?

T.J.L.
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Frank Bryce
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  • Had Scabbers not faked his own death and fled by then? – Bellerophon Apr 04 '16 at 20:18
  • Not yet, that happened after Christmas. Crookshanks had attacked/lunged at Scabbers several times by that point, though – Frank Bryce Apr 04 '16 at 20:19
  • In that case then Scabbers is there but he is not dining as at the time Scabbes didn't eat due to fear of Sirius. – Bellerophon Apr 04 '16 at 20:19
  • I think it's fair to say Scabbers had to eat something even if he was scrawny. – Frank Bryce Apr 04 '16 at 20:24
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    I think it's fair to say that Trelawney is a loony and her (normal) predictions are basically bilge. – Valorum Apr 04 '16 at 20:25
  • Sure but I still don't think Scabbers would wander around the table snaffling food, Ron wouldn't let him for one think and since Scabbers ate very little it is unlikely he would attend a Christmas Feast. – Bellerophon Apr 04 '16 at 20:28
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    @Richard - Isn't there a theory somewhere that all of her predictions actually do work out (in obscure ways)? – ThruGog Apr 04 '16 at 20:35
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    @ThruGog There's also a (debunked by JKR) theory that Ron is actually Dumbledore, so... – Anthony Grist Apr 04 '16 at 20:38
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    @Anthony Grist - I'm going to need to see the interview in which she debunks that before I can just take your word for it. Long live Ronbledore! – ThruGog Apr 04 '16 at 20:40
  • @ThruGog http://time.com/4059263/jk-rowling-harry-potter-fan-theories/ – Frank Bryce Apr 04 '16 at 20:42
  • @ThruGog Will you accept a tweet? – Anthony Grist Apr 04 '16 at 20:43
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    @Anthony Grist - I will believe a tweet, but not sure I can ever accept this truth. Heart. Broken. – ThruGog Apr 04 '16 at 20:52
  • If you count Scabbers, then when Trelawney joins there are fourteen, not thirteen... – TGnat Apr 04 '16 at 21:43
  • @TGnat I believe it means that right before Trelawney joined them, there were thirteen including Scabbers, not that Trelawney was the thirteenth. – CHEESE Apr 04 '16 at 23:58
  • Well, @JohnCarpenter, you can tell your wife she has 6 upvotes and see how she reacts – CHEESE Apr 05 '16 at 00:56
  • most (if not all) of trelawney's predictions DID come true though. go back and read the books. it's not just a fan theory—she fits the classic cassandra trope perfectly. the whole point is that no one believes her, because her predictions rarely come true in the way most would expect. – user428517 Apr 05 '16 at 14:59

3 Answers3

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There's no direct confirmation in the books, and I haven't been able to find an interview where Rowling confirms one way or the other.

You could make a decent case either way, but I'd be inclined to suggest he probably was in Ron's pocket.

The important piece of information is that there had been an altercation with Crookshanks earlier that morning:

[B]efore Hermione could answer, Crookshanks sprang from Seamus’s bed, right at Ron's chest.

"GET — HIM — OUT — OF — HERE!" Ron bellowed as Crookshanks's claws ripped his pajamas and Scabbers attempted a wild escape over his shoulder. Ron seized Scabbers by the tail and aimed a misjudged kick at Crookshanks that hit the trunk at the end of Harry’s bed, knocking it over and causing Ron to hop up and down, howling with pain.

[...]

Christmas spirit was definitely thin on the ground in the Gryffindor common room that morning. Hermione had shut Crookshanks in her dormitory, but was furious with Ron for trying to kick him; Ron was still fuming about Crookshanks’s fresh attempt to eat Scabbers.

[...]

At lunchtime they went down to the Great Hall, to find that the House tables had been moved against the walls again, and that a single table, set for twelve, stood in the middle of the room.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 11: "The Firebolt"

Since Crookshanks is locked in the dormitory at this point, it's possible Ron judged it safe enough to leave Scabbers behind; we know from earlier in the chapter that Ron does, on occasion, do this:

"How's Scabbers?" Hermione asked timidly as they stripped fat pink pods from the plants and emptied the shining beans into a wooden pail.

"He's hiding at the bottom of my bed, shaking," said Ron angrily, missing the pail and scattering beans over the greenhouse floor.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 8: "Flight of the Fat Lady"

For my money, though, it seems unlikely that Ron would let the rat out of his sight mere hours after an attack.

Of course, that's just my headcanon; it could go either way.

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Jason Baker
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It doesn't matter. I hate to be snarky (actually, I love being snarky) but if Scabbers was, as you suggest, in Ron's pocket during the Christmas feast, he was not dining at the time. He would have been sitting in Ron's pocket, probably asleep or worrying about Sirius. Also, whoever had risen to greet her would be an accurate predictions, as all of them would at some point die.

To give a more thorough answer, Crookshanks had recently made another attempt to, as Ron interpreted it, eat Scabbers.

All he could hear now were Ron's stifled moans of pain and rage. Scabbers was huddled in Ron's hands. It had been a while since Harry had seen him out of Ron's pocket...

(Emphasis mine)

After such a fresh attempt, it is highly unlikely that Ron would let him out of his pocket for once.

It doesn't matter, but Scabbers probably was in the pocket, although not dining.

CHEESE
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    « Also, whoever had risen to greet her would be an accurate predictions, as all of them would at some point die » — Not quite. The ‘prediction’ is that the first to rise is the first to die. The first to die of the people at the feast was undeniably Dumbledore; predicting anyone else would have been false. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 04 '16 at 21:04
  • @JanusBahsJacquet Yeah, I guess so. On the other hand, when has she ever made a real prophecy, right? – CHEESE Apr 04 '16 at 21:07
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    Well, at least twice. And quite a few phoney ones that happen to come true anyway, probably because JKR uses Trelawney as a kind of Easter egg. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 04 '16 at 21:10
  • Someone stole my idea. :( – Bellerophon Apr 04 '16 at 21:20
  • @Bellerephon Sorry, I honestly didn't see your comment until after I had submitted the answer...Great minds think alike! – CHEESE Apr 04 '16 at 21:30
  • I wasn't going to write it up anyway. So all's well that ends well. – Bellerophon Apr 04 '16 at 21:31
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    I will do my best to ignore your scar answer, as I really like the theory. In my book all of Trelawney's prophecies will come true. Harry will get promoted to Minister of Magic, have his remaining nine kids and then die his horrible gruesome death. – ibid Apr 04 '16 at 21:31
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    @ibid Yes, he will be mauled to death by a large black mound of tea leaves that looks like a sheep, drown twice, get trampled by a hippogriff, lose a bet, lose a fight, and defeat Voldemort. – CHEESE Apr 04 '16 at 21:44
  • @CHEESE - Besides for the Voldemort one, those all seem pretty probable. – ibid Apr 04 '16 at 22:55
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    @ibid I know, she really messed up on that one prophecy. :-( – CHEESE Apr 04 '16 at 23:00
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    Incidentally, while Trelawney does use the word “dine” here, the real-world equivalent of the saying—at least in my experience—is not limited to actual dining: any 13 people seated around a table for some social purpose (dinner, drinks, even just chatting or playing Monopoly) would qualify. Not sure if that's true in the UK, though. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 05 '16 at 00:56
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    @JanusBahsJacquet Does Scabbers' position in Ron's pocket count as being "seated?" – CHEESE Apr 05 '16 at 00:57
  • @CHEESE I thought about that too. He's certainly not seated on a chair, but maybe he was sitting down inside Ron's pocket. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 05 '16 at 01:24
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If we rule out Scabbers being with Ron at the table, even then, there is a chance that there were indeed thirteen people at the table. Harry always had the piece of Voldemort's soul inside him. So even if Scabbers being there at the table is ruled out (it is indeed not mentioned in the book), still there would be 13 souls sitting at the table. Dumbledore did get up to greet Trelawney, so he was the first one to get up among the thirteen souls sitting there. This makes more sense to me than Scabbers being there.

Sakshi Kashyap
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    Welcome to the site! I’m not sure this makes too much sense (Voldemort’s soul can’t dine etc.) but it is well reasoned. You might want to take the [tour] and read [answer] if you haven’t already to learn a little about how the site works as it is a question and answer site; a bit different to a typical discussion forum. – TheLethalCarrot Jan 12 '21 at 19:07