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According to an answer to this question, Kylo Ren is not a true Sith.

As we saw in the end of episode VI

Palpatine and Vader are both killed.

Does this mean there are no longer any Sith in the galaxy? If there are no current Sith alive, how would the Sith come back?

Clearly there are followers of the dark side, but I get a bit confused on what the true difference is and why Kylo Ren could not simply re-start the Sith and claim to be one unless there was someone to dispute that claim.

TheLethalCarrot
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Broots Waymb
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  • If they were gone, what would the rest of the trilogy be about? – Mithical Dec 22 '15 at 17:23
  • @Mithrandir, that's kinda what I'm trying to get at. It doesn't seem like they could be gone gone, it wouldn't make sense... but apparently we haven't seen a true Sith so far, since Vader/Palpatine. Unless I'm missing a chunk of lore someplace. – Broots Waymb Dec 22 '15 at 17:26
  • Dark Side Force Users are not the same as Sith. Sith follow the Sith doctrine. I mean, they change it too, but Kylo Ren would probably need to study the Sith before he could claim the doctrine. – Nate Dec 22 '15 at 17:41
  • "Sith" isn't just a title, it's an ideal. It's a title for a very specific type of dark force user, with a particular mindset. There will always be bad people, but the methods of the Sith were harmful to the Force. Also, as Mike said, we don't really know what Snoke is, yet, so the Sith may yet live. –  Dec 22 '15 at 17:41
  • @Axelrod, does that imply that as long as a dark side user were to follow Sith doctrine, they could now claim to be one without being trained from a master? (assuming that there is no existing Sith to train him, as far as we know) – Broots Waymb Dec 22 '15 at 17:43
  • @DangerZone I believe the master is required to be official, but on the simple level of what they do, there have been untrained Sith. It's just unfortunate that there's always some unknown Sith coming out of the woodwork to train them, rather than leaving them to their own devices. –  Dec 22 '15 at 17:57
  • Do we really need to use spoiler syntax for events from the end of a film that was released over thirty years ago? – Mike Scott Dec 22 '15 at 21:04
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    @MikeScott, see this meta post. Not everyone has seen it and I don't want to be responsible for ruining it for even a single person. – Broots Waymb Dec 22 '15 at 21:07
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    Agree @DangerZone - I was fussed at add spoiler tags to my answers to the newest film - glad for this official reference :) – NKCampbell Dec 22 '15 at 22:06
  • Kylo Ren's training isn't complete yet, if I understood the end of the movie correctly, so declaring himself a Sith would be premature. But I don't see why he would want to anyway; the Sith lost. (I can imagine him thinking something like, huh, if only grandfather had been a Knight of Ren instead of one of those loser Sith he'd never have failed.) – Harry Johnston Dec 22 '15 at 22:59

3 Answers3

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I think the implication is that yes, the Sith are gone, though it wouldn't be the first time in Star Wars universe that people thought that.

The most compelling evidence for this is two-fold:

  • The main antagonist of The Force Awakens doesn't call himself a Sith, he's a Knight of Ren.
  • At one point, Maz rattles off a list of "Dark Side of the Force" users from the past and she includes the Sith on that list.

The only thing that's not entirely clear is the identity of the power behind The First Order, Supreme Leader Snoke, who's background remains intentionally vague as of the first movie.

KutuluMike
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    Darth Jar Jar Plagueis Bane Krayt Thrawn. You heard it here first. Yub Yub. – DVK-on-Ahch-To Dec 22 '15 at 19:02
  • I'm pretty sure we heard it on reddit about a month ago :) – KutuluMike Dec 22 '15 at 19:04
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    The main antagonist calls himself a Knight of Ren. – Technetium Dec 22 '15 at 21:01
  • @Technetium - I'm not 100% certain, but my impression is that Knights of Ren predate First Order as far as Disney Canon books show. – DVK-on-Ahch-To Dec 22 '15 at 21:04
  • I'm not claiming knowledge of anything outside of the movie. My comment was a clarification to this statement: "The main protagonist of The Force Awakens doesn't call himself a Sith, he's a Knight of Ren." – Technetium Dec 22 '15 at 21:16
  • @Technetium - oh, sorry missed that part! Good catch :) Then again, if he's a Vader parallal/wannabe, may be it's HIS destiny to be a protagonist and bring the Balane to the Force (yet again) :) If that happens, I call dibs on first posting that particular fan theory :) – DVK-on-Ahch-To Dec 22 '15 at 21:59
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According to Visual Dictionary, the implication is that the Sith are gone. Kylo Ren's page (#24) states:

... His ability to use the Force grants him many impressive combat skills, but Kylo Ren is no Jedi, nor is he a Sith.
He is the archetype of a new generation of Dark Side users that have emerged to fill the void left by the Sith's demise

"Demise" seems to strongly imply that they are gone.

  • what the true difference is

    Disney canon doesn't see very clear on this, but I think it's more of a doctrinal thing. Catholics, Mormons, Protestants and SDAs are all Christians (i don't mean to imply any equivalence of Christianity to Dark Side, but more use Christianity as example of doctrinally branched religion); but they have some fairly major doctrinal differences in their beliefs and practices.

  • why Kylo Ren could not simply re-start the Sith and claim to be one unless there was someone to dispute that claim

    In theory, he could - Darth Krayt did just that in old Legends canon.

    In practice, he was subservient to Snoke, so he would do what Snoke told him to do, not hare off and do his own thing.

DVK-on-Ahch-To
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    Ah, that is quite interesting. Leads me to believe that this "new generation of Dark Side users" will become "Sith 2.0" in a sense. It would be strange to completely kill off the ancient Jedi vs. Sith rivalry in the Star Wars universe (at least in my opinion). – Broots Waymb Dec 22 '15 at 20:56
  • @DangerZone - Sith are basically just one brand of Dark Siders. Yes, the most recognizable and up till then the most successful. But not the only possible nor - considering the ultimate outcome - perhaps the most desirable to continue. – DVK-on-Ahch-To Dec 22 '15 at 20:59
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    Definitely some good info in that edit. It seems my question came off as me assuming Kylo Ren claimed to be a Sith (not what I was getting at..). I was trying to make note that it would make sense that KR, would somehow want to at least mimic them, as he clearly shows an affinity toward Vader. It would be cool to see Ren try turning the Knights into some kind of "New Sith Order" or something. Again, never tried/trying to claim he is a Sith, and that previous sentence is my personal opinion, not claiming it as fact (or even a realistic possibility necessarily). – Broots Waymb Dec 22 '15 at 21:53
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No

In The Rise of Skywalker we found out that

Darth Sidious is alive, so the Siths are still out there. If Rey would do what he wanted, she would probably also become a Sith.

After this movie

where Darth Sidious died, it seems that now they're really over (and the other answers are valid again). But hey, it is Star Wars, so probably they're not.

TGar
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