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This is the scene I'm referring to:

Given the limits of human strength, and materials on Earth used to build a sword, and the hardness of a human skull, would this be possible?

G.o.T. has been an eye opener for me in many ways, as I did not know so much about what life was like so long ago. One thing that has surprised me throughout the series, is what swords can do. I never imagined that swords, operated by real humans, could be so powerful. Have they exaggerated what swords can do?

Möoz
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user1271772
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    I did not know so much about what life was like so long ago... dragons were definitley a pain in the ass alright – Daft Oct 12 '15 at 15:38
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    ...You do realise that it's a piece of fiction, not a historical essay on life in the medieval era? If you're interested in it, you could always read about it. You should always be skeptical of things you "learn" from fiction. – PointlessSpike Oct 12 '15 at 15:41
  • It maybe that most of the time if a soldier goes for a skull stab, it might shank off to the side, but every once in a while a soldier might get a clean skull stab. Also the victim might have calcium deficient bones or something, making it easier. A super sharp blade would probably make it easier, like the valarian steel theoretically provides. – Mark Rogers Oct 12 '15 at 15:46
  • Swordfish can penetrate the skull just from leaping at someone: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17475591 – FuzzyBoots Oct 12 '15 at 16:44
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    The scene with the sword through the head is "borrowed" from a scene where Gendry kills Rorge, saving Brienne. I assume since that storyline never happened, they wanted to keep the sword-through-skull kill. – TLP Oct 12 '15 at 18:03
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    +1 good question. Comments like @pointlessspike seem to miss that one of the things GoT is praised for is how, in the elements that aren't fantastical, they pay a lot of attention to historically-inspired realism - especially arms&armoury and fighting choreography (but sometimes they do apply artistic license). Maybe you'll get a more mature response at movies.se which has a realism tag welcoming questions like this – user56reinstatemonica8 Oct 12 '15 at 21:05
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    Don't forget that his Sword is special; it's made out of Valyrian Steel. VS has been rumoured to cut through things quite easily. See this answer for more details. – Möoz Oct 12 '15 at 21:18
  • You might also be interested in this post - Jon The Berserker - which outlines how Jon has moments of near super-human strength when he's angry. – Möoz Dec 02 '15 at 21:48
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    Asking for a real world explanation for something that is clearly possible in the work is generally frowned upon. – Jack B Nimble Feb 14 '17 at 18:34

2 Answers2

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It's possible (here's a real knife in a skull and here is a practical illustration from a sword manual showing a sword through head:

enter image description here

but that's a surprising way to strike, both for the chosen target, and especially for the angle (downwards from above, with both men standing and the attacker being shorter). It seems like the clear out-of-universe reason for it is dramatic visual effect. It's certainly possible to go through a skull with such a sword, particularly if your opponent is basically unmoving with his back to you. But it could also glance off the skull and slide to one side. Stab through the neck might have been safer. A swing would be even surer if it hit, but would make more noise and take slightly longer, giving some chance the target might flinch or duck. Also, if there are any other foes around, Jon's sword was stuck in the head, and might take a bit to pull it out.

We don't see exactly how Jon did it, or know why in-universe. (I like to think he was going for the neck but tripped slightly and so ended up in that weird position, but that's just my sense of humor.)

What does seem to be strange in the TV version compared to the books, is the frequent neglect of helmet use. Swords are often devastating... when they aren't striking metal armor. Heavy metal armor tends to be good protection against real swords, though.

Gallifreyan
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Dronz
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  • The angle of the arm though... he's doing the traditional SCA stab over the top of a shield, which only works because you need only make moderate contact to score a point. Compare that to your illustration, which shows the entire body behind the thrust. I do not believe it is possible for someone to stab through skull bone in the manner shown. – FuzzyBoots Oct 12 '15 at 17:05
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    Yeah, it seemed wrong the instant I first saw it (a month or two ago, not with this question in mind). Hopefully it's clear my answer is two-part: one yes a sword can go through a skull, and two this is a weird way to do it. I'm not sure it's completely not possible to do it this way (adrenaline can multiply strength, and we only see the final position), but it seems unlikely in a variety of ways. – Dronz Oct 12 '15 at 17:17
  • @SeanDuggan I am sorry, but I don't think your comment is very valid. A Sword coming down behind a shield is going to do damage if it hits you. Real swords are really sharp. It may not penetrate through a good piece of armor, but the area around between the neck and shoulders is a common quick kill target area even when armored. And if you aren't armored, you are likely to get a good cut, and that pain is a real distraction. – Escoce Dec 02 '15 at 17:47
  • @Escoce: True, pinking your opponent can serve as a distraction. However, it does not tend to do well to punch through flesh and bone. Swords are sharp, by physics is a cruel mistress that will have your blade deflect and slide over a surface rather than penetrate it if you're not supporting it. No problem is you just want to poke your opponent to annoy them or score a point, but the strike he's making is unlikely to punch through muscle, let alone bone. – FuzzyBoots Dec 02 '15 at 17:51
  • @SeanDuggan uh, I don't agree. A sharp sword me get deflected by bone, but flesh is no going to do much to stop the sword for the first few to several inches and that is enough to kill. Being someone who cooks quite a bit and is experienced in cutting a lot of meat, I can tell you a well sharpened tool doesn't need much force at all to cut through a warm piece of meat. – Escoce Dec 02 '15 at 17:55
  • @Escoce: I don't want to get into a discussion in the comments on this, but I'll simply say that I disagree, and suggest that you experiment in how easy it is to cut or impale that meat when it's not braced on a cutting board with a firm grip on it. It's not difficult to inflict superficial damage, much more difficult to do something substantive. – FuzzyBoots Dec 02 '15 at 17:58
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If you had a sword like a claymore, then sure, it would be possible to stick a sword through the back of someone's head. The claymore was chosen specifically by the Scottish during battles against the English for two reasons, one being that they were very intimidating, and two being that the claymore was powerful enough to hack through the English's armour. However, the claymore required two hands to wield and downward strokes and forward thrusts were probably the strongest (and more advisable) strikes to use, as using such a big sword opens you up to smaller, faster ones as it takes longer to recover from a parried blow with a bigger sword, not to mention the force needed to put behind it.

It would, in all honesty, have been more realistic for Jon to stick the sword through his opponent's eye, or get up close and shove it up under his chin, but yes, with a sword like a claymore he could generate enough force to shove the point through the bone. Smash is a better word for it, though.

charleen langley
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