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Two salads have been prepared and both have raw onions. One salad was prepared with meaty utensils and the other prepared with dairy utensils. The onions were chopped with their respective knives. All the other ingredients are parve.

The utensils, knives and anything else used in the preparation were all completely clean. Let's assume that they were not used in the last 24 hours for dairy/ meat and therefore not ben yomo.

Can the two salads be eaten together?

mbloch
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Rabmi
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  • Welcome to Mi Yodeya Mirab! :) – David Kenner Oct 21 '18 at 00:12
  • Fascinating! I learned something new. In looking this up, I came across an article you might find of interest. https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/597/sharp-awareness-in-the-kitchen/ – Cyn Oct 21 '18 at 01:49

1 Answers1

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Cutting an onion with a cold clean knife "upgrades" it halachically to the equivalent of a hot ben yomo knife (this is the din of duchka d’sakinah applied to davar charif). As such your onions become halavi and basari respectively and as such they cannot be eaten together.

The safer and halachically correct approach is to eat one salad after the other (as the onions don't transfer taste further without knife cutting, see here under IV) but note some poskim do not permit eating the "halavi" onion salad after eating actual meat without first waiting six hours (or whatever duration you wait).

For detailed sources and explanations see here, here and there. I checked all the above with R Yonathan Jessurun who concurs but of course, consult your rabbi before implementing anything you learn here.

mbloch
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  • I am not sure that we cannot eat the two salads together, perhaps the taam they will not give taam mutually. – kouty Jan 31 '19 at 12:02
  • Would you eat a potato cooked with meat and a potato cooked with milk together ? – mbloch Jan 31 '19 at 12:04
  • if the meal is cold, there is a problem? I ask because I don't remember. I learned this before a lot – kouty Jan 31 '19 at 12:08
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    Would you eat cold meat and cold milk? Yes it is a problem. It is true that they don’t transfer taste to each other but you can’t eat them together. You can eat them one after each other as I wrote in the answer. – mbloch Jan 31 '19 at 12:10
  • cold meat and cold meat can give taam. cold potatoes can give maximum nat bar nat. isn't? – kouty Jan 31 '19 at 12:13
  • Yes but onions (davar harif) are “one level up” from potatoes. They are like milk and meat in this respect so you can’t eat them together – mbloch Jan 31 '19 at 12:15
  • See first link in my answer: "Firstly, even if the knife is clean, we assume the knife emitted the "ta'am balua" – the taste that was absorbed in it. Secondly, the ta'am's status is that of a "ta'am rishon" and not a "nat bar nat." In other words, if a besari knife were to be immersed into a pot of boiling soup, the laws and debates of "nat bar nat" (see shiur #16) would apply. Here, however, the radish is considered, according to all, to be besari, and may not be eaten with milk, and if it were mixed with milk it would be prohibited according to all! ... – mbloch Jan 31 '19 at 12:30
  • ...

    The Shulchan Arukh (YD 96:1) rules in accordance with the more stringent opinion. Therefore, even if the knife were clean, we assume the radish absorbed the taste absorbed within the knife and is considered to be besari.

     – mbloch Jan 31 '19 at 12:30
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – kouty Jan 31 '19 at 12:56
  • Hi, if the knives are not ben yomo, then both should be pareve. B'diavad, after 24 hours, the balu'a is pagum. Please mention to R' Yessurun, if you please. – chacham Nisan Feb 13 '19 at 19:34
  • @chachamNisan no this is incorrect. The fact you are cutting a radish changes the din and upgrades the non ben yomo into ben yomo. See the references in links I provided – mbloch Feb 13 '19 at 19:39
  • @chachamNisan see also the quote in the comment 5 above this one (longer one) – mbloch Feb 13 '19 at 19:40
  • The minhag is as you wrote according to the yesh omrim in SA YD 96:1-2 and the Shach. However, the din is that it is permitted. R' Yosef Karo ztz"l paskened as stam that if it's not ben yomo and mekunach, that's it's permitted; which is why it's permitted to taste the food to test if it contains a hint of meat/milk flavor. If no hint of meat/milk flavor, then it is permitted. See the Ba'er Heitev #2 there on SA YD 96:1. Bottom line, I truly think there is room to be lenient in the above case nowadays since our keilim are smoother than in the olden days. – chacham Nisan Feb 14 '19 at 17:09