3

What are examples where you would need to give up your life to ‘idolatry’ today? כדת ודין

that could actually occur

Dr. Shmuel
  • 633
  • 1
  • 19
  • 69
  • Bowing down or offering sacrifices to Buddha, maybe? I gather that in India, there is a multi-day feast / ceremony. How about praying to the cross, esp. where J is hanging on it? – DanF Apr 12 '18 at 18:05
  • This is what I am unsure about – Dr. Shmuel Apr 12 '18 at 18:06
  • @DanF Even being forced to go to church would be problematic – ezra Apr 12 '18 at 18:14
  • @ezra You mean forced to pray in a church. Perhaps if you were forced to specifically say prayers attributing Jesus as god. Many of the church prayers are recitations of Tehillim or such, anyway. There are also a number of opinions that say that a Jew is allowed to go into a church for non-prayer purposes. So, if you were forced to do this, you might be able to rely on those opinions, anyway. – DanF Apr 12 '18 at 19:06
  • there is a machlokes rishonim if christianity is real avoda zara. i believe the rambam says not. it needs to be a real pagan religion. but then there is avizrayhu, so those might be more relevant – Hershy S. Apr 12 '18 at 19:36
  • Well, if my father worshiped Molech, then (according to some, depending on how you understand Molech), he would be passing me through a fire for an idol. Seems like a prime example of my giving up my life for idolatry. – msh210 Apr 12 '18 at 19:38
  • 2
    @heshy Are you sure about that? IIRC, Rambam says it is avodah zarah – ezra Apr 12 '18 at 19:42
  • 4
    Why would the examples today be any different than they were in the past? While arguably less people sacrifice animals to Ba'al on daily basis nowadays, if one did so, they would be liable just as in the days of old. – Salmononius2 Apr 12 '18 at 20:11
  • @salmononius2 Yes, that is obvious. The question concerns modern items however. – Dr. Shmuel Apr 12 '18 at 20:27
  • 1
    Shmuel, if you're looking for examples of contemporary situations that a Jew might plausibly find him/herself in, please [edit] to make that clear. Also, given how potentially open-ended such a query is, it'd be good to include criteria indicating what the ideal answer would look like, e.g. "the more plausible, the better." – Isaac Moses Apr 12 '18 at 20:39
  • @DanF your comment is the best answer we can get to this question in present form – יהושע ק Apr 12 '18 at 21:01
  • @JoshK I see that you deleted an answer, but, it seems that you were on the right track. I'm uncertain if my comment makes for a good answer. Even if it did, I think you should undelete and modify your answer to include the idea that if you were forced to worship, it woule be idolatry. – DanF Apr 13 '18 at 02:20
  • 1
    @heshy, ezra Re: Christianity as Avodah Zarah according to the Rambam: See Hacham Gabriel's answer to "Is Christianity Avodah Zara", and Lee's comment there. – Tamir Evan Apr 13 '18 at 02:49
  • @TamirEvan Thanks, I thought I'd remembered that. Glad to know I recalled correctly. – ezra Apr 13 '18 at 12:30
  • That could actually occur Well considering that almost all of us on here live in civilized countries, there's probably going to be no real case of someone forcing you into idol worship. Really, this question is theoretical. (And if you mention living in an Islamic country, the Rambam doesn't consider Islam idolatry, although many Jews did give up their lives when forced to convert during the Crusades.) – ezra Apr 13 '18 at 12:33

1 Answers1

1

Hindu and Buddhist practices involving praying and/or bowing down to idols are pretty clear-cut examples of contemporary idol worship, so becoming a sadhu or buddhist monk would be a wonderful way to give up your life to idolatry in our times.

There are differing opinions regarding Abrahamic religions. We generally hold as the Rambam does that Muslims are not idolatrers, but that Islam is avodah zarah (in the literal sense of "foreign worship")for Jews. The Rambam in Hilchot Avodat Cochavim states that Christians ("the Edomites" in the version I have) are idolatrors, but not all hold that way. You could also do an interesting analysis of Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant practices, there are certainly arguments to be made that the former are idolatrous in a way that the latter is not (ignoring the unity of Hashem for such purposes). Regardless, it is an interesting maloches.

In terms of "needing to" give your life to idolatry today, though Buddhism as practiced inside and outside of Asia is a pretty nonviolent faith,it would not be entirely outside the realm of possibity to imagine being forced to practice Buddhism in contemporary Myanmar/Burma.

Hindus are generally a pretty tolerant bunch (see close to 2000 years of Jewish life in India as an example) and where they're not it usually involves Islam, so I think the only possible forced avodah zarah scenario there involves being kidnapped by a renegade Hindu inspired cult.

Historically, for most of the Edomite Galut, the problem regarding forced Avodah Zarah has mainly come from Christianity; I am unaware of any country where this is still an issue.

On an interesting side note, many "new age" and other "spiritual" types, Jewish and Goyish alike, put quite a bit of time and effort into studying astrology, which is at least "Avodah Zarah-adjascent" if not outright idol worship.Then again, who's forcing you to read horoscopes?

יהושע ק
  • 5,146
  • 2
  • 14
  • 27