the Alter Rebbe's daughter had a male soul

Question

What is the source that the Alter Rebbe's daughter (Fraida) had a male soul?

I heard in a shiur that the alter rebbe said that his daughter has a male soul (I guess similar to this)

Is this true (that he said this or something similar to it)? Source please

(what does it mean?)

Closely related, but more general: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/53114/3 — WAF, Jan 17 '18 at 12:27
That's why I don't vmeet many chassidish girls on Saw You At Sinai - because the Arizal holds that the girls around today weren't at Sinai! — Clint Eastwood, Jan 17 '18 at 13:46
@ClintEastwood Wow really? Elaborate! I've never heard that the Arizal held this. — ezra, Jan 17 '18 at 23:54
@ezra he might be misrepresenting by connecting the idea of girls not having gilgulim with the idea that everyone was at har-sinai — hazoriz, Jan 17 '18 at 23:56
@ezra (until he shows a source) to me it seems possible that the soul of an unborn Jewish girl was there and was born 2 thousand years after that for the first time (not a gilgul) . Also I do not think the arizal argues with the gemara https://www.sefaria.org/Shevuot.39a.9 and https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.146a.1 , and the midrash quoted by rashi https://www.sefaria.org/Rashi_on_Deuteronomy.29.14. — hazoriz, Jan 18 '18 at 00:07

score 5 · Accepted Answer · answered Jan 21 '18 at 00:00

5

The comment is found on page 193 from Sefer Yamei Chabad.

But looking at the language, it doesn’t appear to be discussing reincarnation (גלגול).

It mentions that the Alter Rebbe once said that the Neshamah of his daughter, Fraida was connected to עולם דדוכרא. It says that the Alter Rebbe commented that for whatever reason, that Neshamah was dressed in the body of his daughter.

This comment was in the context that the Alter Rebbe taught his daughter, Fraida, Chassidic discourses.

In context, that seems to be saying that her intellect was masculine. It is not talking about reincarnation.

answered Jan 21 '18 at 00:00

Yaacov Deane

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@hazoriz The comment is on p. 179 I disagree with YaacovD though and think that even given the context, the Alter Rebbe was speaking of her soul in toto, not only her intellect. – Oliver Jan 21 '18 at 05:23
@Oliver thank you and I agree with you (did Fraida have children?) related ואין ראיה ממיכל בת שאול שהיתה מנחת תפילין, ע"כ. והביאו יפה ללב ז"ל אות ב' וכתב, דמה שכתב: "ואין ראיה ממיכל בת שאול" וכו', אפשר לומר דמיכל בת שאול היתה אשה חכמה וידעה בעצמה שהיתה לה נשמה מעלמא דדכורא, ולכך ולמיכל בת שאול לא היה לה ולד, עכ"ל. ועיין שער הגלגולים הקדמה ט' שכתב, שאשה שמגולגל בה נשמת זכר אי אפשר לה להתעבר, אם לא על ידי זכות גדול שתתעבר בה איזה נשמת אשה נקבה אחרת בסוד עיבור וכו', יעו"ש. ועיין מה שכתבתי לעיל סימן טו"ב אות ה': from כף החיים 38.3 – hazoriz Jan 21 '18 at 05:32
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%9C%D7%97_%D7%92#%D7%98_%D7%9B%D7%94%D7%97 – hazoriz Jan 21 '18 at 05:33
@hazoriz Per the שער הגלגולים, yes, her son was R. Aaron of Kremenchuk . (Don't ask me for a reconciliation :) ) – Oliver Jan 21 '18 at 05:40
@Oliver there was another son רבי ברוך, according to this http://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php/אליהו_(חתן_אדמו"ר_הזקן) – hazoriz Jan 21 '18 at 05:54
@Oliver You don’t understand the language the Alter Rebbe is using (עולם דדכורא). He is referring to her refinement, not reincarnation. See discussion of the concept from Machshavot Charutz 8:13. https://www.sefaria.org/Machshavot_Charutz.8?vhe=R%27_Zadok_--_Machshavot_Charutz&lang=bi – Yaacov Deane Jan 21 '18 at 17:05
@YaacovDeane This is pointless. For each of your [late Chassidus] sources I can counter with a cryptic passage in an older kabbalistic source. Can you conclusively prove what the Alter Rebbe meant? (Also, would you please briefly explain, in comprehensible English, the difference between refinement and reincarnation, and then point to a source (Hebrew/Aramaic would be acceptable) for said differentiation?) – Oliver Jan 21 '18 at 17:22
@Oliver The nomenclature is different between kabbalah and Chassidut. If you are trying to understand a particular usage, it requires seeing how it is applied in context. In general, the Alter Rebbe used the nomenclature of Chassidut. A possible proof relates to Rebbetzin Fraida having children, which according to your view shouldn’t have happened. FYI, this phenomenon of a male being born in a female body and being sterile is understood today. It is the rare situation of XXY females. Another external indicator is that they are very well endowed physically. – Yaacov Deane Jan 21 '18 at 17:33
I believe it is called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. – Yaacov Deane Jan 21 '18 at 17:57
@YaacovDeane Agreed, the nomenclature is sometimes unique, but the concepts originate from Kabbalah. And in this particular context it can easily be understood the way hazoriz and I understand. I'm familiar with the science but let not kid ourselves and read too much into this. – Oliver Jan 21 '18 at 18:12
My reason for mentioning it is in the context of Fraida having children. Like the Ari z”l mentions, this type of incarnation would be sterile. – Yaacov Deane Jan 21 '18 at 18:22
@YaacovDeane I understand. But without having to revert to such far-fetched interpretations, it's easier (and more sensible) to say, perhaps, 1) Ari was mistaken, 2) Ari meant it generally, 3) Frieda had a double transmigration which included a male, 4) she was granted a spiritual/physical tikkun, 5) Alter Rebbe was mistaken about his daughter's soul. (I sincerely hope I did not offend you by 1 & 5; it's for the sake of rationalization.) – Oliver Jan 21 '18 at 18:53
@Oliver no offense taken. We’re talking. If not considering who made the statement, your points 2-4 are valid. But it ignores a general teaching from all the Rebbes of Chabad about the nature of their publicized (and printed) stories. They are not about revealing private, personal matters. They are only to inspire & to teach proper service of HaShem. That means this comment about his daughter which was publicized is meant in that context. The way you are understanding it, that he is revealing a negative (& private) personal spiritual detail is contrary to his teachings. – Yaacov Deane Jan 21 '18 at 19:13

the Alter Rebbe's daughter had a male soul

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