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A friend of mine asked me from when a Non-Jew was allowed to make giyur (conversion); and on which Biblical verses it was based upon. I guess he wanted to know more about it's origin. So that's why I'm posting this question: From where in the Scriptures (and commentaries) can one trace back the origin for making giyur?

user15464
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Levi
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2 Answers2

1

The doctrine of joining/converting to another's religions can be traced to the book of Leviticus from chapters 17-24. Cf. also Isaiah 56:6. In practice, we have it recorded in the book of Ruth whose subject was a convert.

See the thorough background of this topic and its subsequent development in Prof. G. F. Moore's 'Judaism' vol. 1 pg. 323ff.

Oliver
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  • What does Leviticus 17-24 have anything to do with conversion? That talks about lots of things, but nowhere does it discuss conversion. Isaiah 56:6 talks about “foreigners who attach themselves to Hashem,” using the Hebrew phrase בני נכר, which invariably refers to either Jews who sin to anger Hashem (a מומר להכעיס) or to a full non-Jew (thus this verse refers to those Jews who do Teshuvah or those non-Jews who keep the 7 mitzvos). If it meant what you say it meant it would say גרים not נכרים. The only part that’s correct is the book of Ruth. – DonielF Nov 05 '18 at 10:42
  • @DonielF 1. Read my response carefully. I wrote “The doctrine can be traced...”. IOW, hints that conversions already occurred can be traced back to those chapters to the inferences of (inclusionary) laws pertaining to gerim too. 2. Re. Isaiah; backing up your assertions with critical evidence would be more compelling arguments. For now: Isaiah referring then to “העמים”, immediately after, wouldn’t jive with your reading 3. Re. last remark; also incorrect. You clearly didn’t look up the English book I cited which you’d have noted is the correct citation and a highly pertinent reference. – Oliver Nov 05 '18 at 14:12
  • You mean 19:24 וכי יגור אתך גר? You quote eight perakim when only one passuk in them mentions conversion? 2. Rashi to Shemos 12:43 3. If you’re going to defend your answer by saying that the main points are in the book you cite, then this ought to be flagged as link-only.
    • – DonielF Nov 05 '18 at 16:12
  • @DonielF No, I’m not referring to 19:33. Read slowly from chapters 17 and on and you will see other mentions. 2. Rashi there is quoting the Mechilta’s drasha which, incidentally, teaches that “כל בן נכר” includes gentile alike. 3. Sorry, but unfamiliar with the “link-only” criteria you’re referring to. – Oliver Nov 05 '18 at 16:47
  • Read my comment again. I said that the passuk in Yeshaya referred to Jewish בני נכר coming close, i.e., doing Teshuvah, as well as non-Jewish ones, i.e., Geirei Toshav. I see now that Targum Yonasan interprets the passuk differently, as “the non-Jews who attach themselves to the nation of Hashem to serve it.” 3. See here, esp. the second paragraph and the succeeding list of bullet points, as well as the fifth bullet point here.
    • – DonielF Nov 05 '18 at 16:58
  • @DonielF 2. In your original comment you stated it refers either to Jews or non-Jews who keep the Noahide laws. Now, I’m unsure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with the inference form Isa. 3. Unsure what you’re getting at. Spell it out (no pun intended); I can take your criticism ;) – Oliver Nov 05 '18 at 17:50
  • I had originally said that, yes, but upon seeing this Targum Yonasan I see that his interpretation fits better in the words of the passuk. Still disagrees with your reading of it, in any event. 3. What I’m saying is that if you cite a source, please include all relevant parts of its contents.
    • – DonielF Nov 05 '18 at 18:00