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Kilayim 8:6, in listing various animals and whether they are considered wild or domesticated, says:

כלב מין חיה

A dog is a type of wild animal

Why is this? We’re not talking about wild dogs or wolves - just ordinary dogs. Why are they not considered domesticated?

(I should note that R’ Meir argues with the Tanna Kamma. I am asking specifically on the Tanna Kamma’s opinion.)

hazoriz
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DonielF
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    Dogs in the time of the Mishna may have been more wild than modern dogs, especially considering that they were kept for a reason - to fight other animals/robbers and not as a "toy" to play with. – ertert3terte Aug 22 '17 at 17:45
  • @ShmuelBrin Perhaps, but they were still kept as pets, even if they were guard dogs. Just because it’s a danger doesn’t mean that it’s a חיה necessarily. – DonielF Aug 22 '17 at 17:48
  • I think the answer is here - http://www.zomet.org.il/?CategoryID=160&ArticleID=8350 - but I have no time to figure it out. It seems to says that all non-Kosher animals are a Chaya (according to one definition.) – Danny Schoemann Aug 23 '17 at 08:16
  • @DannySchoemann That very Mishnah I cited lists a pig as a Beheimah – DonielF Aug 23 '17 at 12:29
  • Maybe becouse it has nails (although it does not have poison) https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Yoreh_De'ah.57.1 see halcha 4 and 6 here http://www.chabad.org/971831/ – hazoriz Aug 23 '17 at 22:11
  • @hazoriz I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to get out of those sources. – DonielF Aug 23 '17 at 22:19
  • @DonielF it is that dogs attack other animals with its nails , just as other wild animals do , (maybe the reason that it is not considered wild is because it does not have poison in is front paws) (monkeys, elephants have nails) (it seems (when you exclude birds) no domesticated animals have nails) – hazoriz Aug 23 '17 at 22:27
  • Why would Chaya/Beheima correspond to domesticated/undomesticated - especially nowadays? If a deer herd becomes domesticated do that lose their Chaya status? – Danny Schoemann Aug 24 '17 at 14:56
  • @DannySchoemann Stam deer are wild. Stam cows are domesticated. We look at the species, not the individual animal. According to you, what is the division? – DonielF Aug 24 '17 at 18:08
  • @DonielF - as Shmuel Brin mentioned above, maybe dogs were originally undomesticated. So maybe Chaya/Beheima corresponds to domesticated/undomesticated at some early point in time. I'm just guessing, I can;t find a clear definition, yet. Still looking. – Danny Schoemann Aug 28 '17 at 08:12
  • There are even dogs Rabbi Meir considers wild. – Dr. Shmuel Feb 03 '19 at 11:08

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Perhaps because the Mishnah in 1:6 compares the wolf with dog, and categorizes them together inasmuch as they cannot be bred with one another. Meaning a dog is similar to a wolf, it is a wild animal.

(I might have thought that since the dog and wolf are similar they would be allowed to be bred.)

Ramban (Ber. 1:24) categorizes the general differences between wild and domestic animals.

בְּהֵמָה הם המינים האוכלים עֵשֶׂב בין ישובי בין מדברי וְחַיְתוֹ אֶרֶץ אוכלי הבשר יקרא חיות וכלם יטרופו

Beasts (behema): These are the types that eat grass, whether they reside in human settlements or in the wilderness. The animals (chayot) of the earth: Those that eat meat are called animals and all of them prey.

See also: Dog Food

Dr. Shmuel
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  • "inasmuch as they cannot be bred": did you mean "inasmuch as they can be bred" or "although they cannot be bred" perhaps? – msh210 Feb 03 '19 at 12:36
  • I’m afraid I don’t follow your comment@msh – Dr. Shmuel Feb 03 '19 at 14:29
  • "inasmuch as" means "because" or "to the extent that". I don't understand why a mishna categorizes two things together because, or to the extent that, they can't be bred together. Does it categorize mouse and wolf together too? They can't breed. (Admittedly, I didn't check the mishna.) Hence I suggested that maybe you have a typo and meant to say "inasmuch as they can be bred" or "although they cannot be bred". – msh210 Feb 03 '19 at 15:50