Lying to avoid embarrassment

Question

Say a person overslept and missed Shacharis, and someone asked him what happened. Is he allowed to lie and say that he Davened somewhere else.

Say someone's caught doing something embarrassing in public. Can he lie and say it was because he lost a bet?

My question really boils down to this. Are you allowed to lie to avoid embarrassing yourself?

In respect to embarrassing others, I would direct you to Yevamos 66, which brings several derashah about modifying and outright lying to protect someone else's dignity. As for yourself, perhaps you could be someich on lifnei iveir, but that's not an answer that applies to every single case to permit you to lie, nor do I know that it's true. — DonielF, Aug 17 '16 at 15:34
"ר יוחנן הלכה כדברי המכריע רב פפא איקלע לבי רב הונא בריה דרב איקא אייתו לקמייהו שמן והדס שקל רב פפא בריך אהדס ברישא והדר בריך אשמן אמר ליה לא סבר לה מר הלכה כדברי המכריע אמר ליה הכי אמר רבא הלכה כב"ה ולא היא לאשתמוטי נפשיה הוא דעבד http://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=1&daf=43b&format=text — ertert3terte, Aug 17 '16 at 16:31
Also see http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1415&pgnum=9 — ertert3terte, Aug 17 '16 at 16:32
Your examples are different. Within the first case, a couple of possibilities: 1a) Someone is asking out of idle curiosity and has no right or reason to inquire what you were doing and why. 1b) Someone is asking because they are concerned with your spiritual welfare, especially if this person is involved in your spiritual life by your consent (e.g. your rebbe). Within the second case: 2a) Someone happened to observe you doing something wrong or sinful. 2b) Someone happened to observe you doing something neither wrong nor sinful. Within (2b): i.) They start interrogating you. ii.) They don't. — Fred, Aug 17 '16 at 20:39
...These cases may carry meaningful halachic distinctions for your proper response. Additional factors may be whether or not you suspect that the other person will speak lashon hara' or motzi shem ra' about you, or whether or not you suspect they will unjustifiably mistreat you over the embarrassing information. | Note that, even if it is strictly permitted to lie to avoid revealing personal but harmless information to someone who really has no business knowing about it, it still seems praiseworthy to tell the truth (Sanhedrin 97a, starting "אמר רבא מריש הוה אמינא "). +1, by the way. — Fred, Aug 17 '16 at 20:51
Case 1; He missed Shacharis and didn't daven at all or he missed Shacharis in shul and davenned at home. Why lie? Tell the truth; we're all human.
Case 2: doing something embarrassing in public. Is admitting that it is “because he lost a bet” any better than admitting he did something stupid in public? Tell the truth; we're all human.

Are you allowed to lie to avoid embarrassing yourself? You did something not right. That's bad enough. Do you have to lie as well and make two sins? — Avrohom Yitzchok, Aug 17 '16 at 21:32
@Fred - The underlying question is the same in both - is saving oneself from embarrassment a legitimate halachic consideration that could possibly allow one to lie. There may be additional factors that could change what should be done in each individual case, but that doesn't affect the core issue. I think that's what the questioner wants to know - is it a 'heter' in the first place. — Jay, Aug 17 '16 at 22:41
@AvrohomYitzchok - The questioner was just giving examples - you can substitute in whatever you would find embarrassing. As far as your last point of why lie and make it 2 sins - that's exactly what he wants to know: IS IT a sin? — Jay, Aug 17 '16 at 22:45
@Jay I suppose you could assume this question is dealing with 1) someone who doesn't have a particular right to the information (e.g. a co-worker who is not your boss asks you why you're late to work), 2) there's no harm from telling him the truth, aside from being embarrassed that he knows the truth (e.g. he won't speak lashon hara'), and 3) the embarrassing truth is not sinful (it is forbidden to publicize one's own private sins). Once you meet all those criteria, you can deal with the core of the question. Otherwise, you have a bunch of complicating halachic factors. — Fred, Aug 17 '16 at 22:50

ray · Answer 1 · 2016-08-19T06:33:47.640

1

according to halachapedia quoting Rabbi Elyashiv zt'l

if a bochur who went on a date is asked where were you last night he does not have to say the truth if he is embarrassed. (quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 102)

seems at least one can avoid telling the truth.

edited Aug 19 '16 at 06:33

answered Aug 18 '16 at 11:45

ray

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I guess R"E was answering a specific question, but perhaps you should explicitly extrapolate that he means lying in order to save YOURSELF from embarrassment is permitted. – Isaac Kotlicky Aug 18 '16 at 13:52
@IsaacKotlicky see the link. the question was about saving yourself from embarassment and that's what he says there is permitted – ray Aug 18 '16 at 13:59
Then make that more explicit in your answer and I'll upvote. – Isaac Kotlicky Aug 18 '16 at 14:05
The first one is irrelevant - only the one about lying to avoid his own embarrassment addresses the question. The Titen Emes L'Yaakov also brings several proofs from Gemara - perhaps you should at least mention that he does so. +1 – Jay Aug 18 '16 at 14:13
@IsaacKotlicky ok done – ray Aug 18 '16 at 14:24
see my edit. you didn't make the answer explicit. – Isaac Kotlicky Aug 18 '16 at 14:26
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Deflecting the question (not saying the truth) isn't the same as lying, though. "I had to take care of something" is true; "I was doing X" (when I was really doing Y) is false. – Monica Cellio Aug 18 '16 at 14:32
@MonicaCellio that part was in wikipedia not in Titen Emes L’Yaakov. just suggesting if possible better not to lie. – ray Aug 18 '16 at 15:25
@MonicaCellio - good point. I believe that many mefarshim on the various relevant Gemaras (and perhaps later halachic commentators as well) say that even when one is 'meshaneh' he should do so in a way that is open to interpretation - this is a middle ground between deflecting and totally lying. I would not be surprised if Rav Elyashiv also mentioned this but it didn't make it into the book. – Jay Aug 18 '16 at 16:23
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@ray, what I'm saying is that the part you included here doesn't say it's ok to lie, so your "implicit" conclusion doesn't seem implicit to me. Your quote just says you don't have to tell the truth. You can avoid telling the truth without actually lying; the question asks about lying. – Monica Cellio Aug 18 '16 at 16:32
@MonicaCellio - the exact quote is "mutar lo lshanos", which does imply actual (at least partial) lying. So the source is good, just the way he presents it in his answer needs to be adjusted. – Jay Aug 18 '16 at 17:03
@ray - I don't think the quote from halachipedia is helpful, as it subtly changes what Rav Elyashiv actually said in the source. Perhaps you should just cite the sefer that quotes Rav Elyashiv, since that is the source of halachipedia's statement anyway and it more clearly answers the question. – Jay Aug 18 '16 at 17:09
@Jay that's good information, thanks. As it stands it's not in this answer and the answer as presented seems incorrect. An edit to make the quote explicit would improve the post, so if you're so inclined, please propose one. Thanks. – Monica Cellio Aug 18 '16 at 17:44
@MonicaCellio I'm not sure I could edit it without basically completely rewriting his answer: 1) I think the whole halachipedia quote needs to be gutted. 2)There is also the issue that 'mutar lshanos' could mean saying something that could be interpreted in different ways, so translating it as 'it's permissible to lie' may be misleading and inaccurate. That's probably why Halachipedia translated it as 'not tell the truth'. – Jay Aug 18 '16 at 18:02
@Jay oh, I see -- I was focusing on the "mutar lshamos" part but you did raise other issues. You can also post your own answer if you like. :-) – Monica Cellio Aug 18 '16 at 18:46
@MonicaCellio i didn't write that "implicit.." clause – ray Aug 19 '16 at 06:30
@jay the clause "it's permissible to lie" was edited in by someone else – ray Aug 19 '16 at 06:35

Lying to avoid embarrassment

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