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As is well known, one is to die rather than murder a Jew, perform adultery and the like, or worship an idol (Sanhedrin 74a). Is blasphemy (i.e. denying one's dedication to the Torah) permissible to save one's life?

I think I remember seeing somewhere that one actually is to give over their life before denying the Torah or even that they are a Jew, since I don't remember the place, hard for me to determine if this was talking about a hypothetical situation (i.e. die before touching a lady that is niddah etc.) or l'maiseh

warz3
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  • Why wouldn't it be? It isn't one of the major three, so as long as we aren't in a shas dochak (which according to the Rambam would require mesiras nefesh even for 'minor' mitzvos) then professing disbelief to save your life would be fine. Atheism and blasphemy =/= idolatry – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 02 '15 at 14:38
  • @IsaacKotlicky idk maybe something along the lines of chillul hashem needs death to atone, afilu b'shogeg – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:25
  • @IsaacKotlicky I believe that's what his question was asking: whether or not atheism and blasphemy is considered idolatry. If you have a source for your claim, that would answer the question. Edit: Seeing the new comment, it seems like that's not what the question was. – Salmononius2 Apr 02 '15 at 15:26
  • @warz3 That doesn't mean one should let himself get killed over it... – Salmononius2 Apr 02 '15 at 15:27
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy_in_Orthodox_Judaism#Views_of_Maimonides A Kofer, apikores, or a min is NOT treated identically to an Oved Avodah Zarah. We might cut them off socially, though. – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 02 '15 at 15:28
  • @IsaacKotlicky that doesnt mean that be killed and dont transgress doesnt apply here – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:29
  • @Salmononius2 do you have a source that distinguishes blasphemy from idol worship in this scenario? Perhaps oved avodah zarah is a blanket term for all forms of chillul hashem that one is to be killed over? – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:30
  • @warz3 the wiki article i linked does a good job breaking down distinct categories of blasphemy. Avodah Zarah is dealt with in an entirely separate section in the Rambam *because it's distinct.* – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 02 '15 at 15:34
  • @IsaacKotlicky im not debating that worshiping an idol is different than some other forbidden belief, I'm basically asking if one can desecrate G-d's name publicly to save their life, i.e. the sages refer to chillul hashem by its most common circumstance in their days (a frequent idiom) i.e. idol worship – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:35
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    @warz3 DEFINITELY NOT!!! Yes, I know I just shouted that, I just don't want anyone to ever make that assumption, as that is a very toxic mistake. Avodah Zara is Avodah Zara, not some code word for other transgressions. While certain sins might have strong punishments attached to them, it does not mean it's considered Yeharog Ve'al Yeavor. Additionally, when done under duress, there might not be any punishment at all. – Salmononius2 Apr 02 '15 at 15:38
  • @Salmononius2 please source and make answer, ty – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:38
  • @Salmononius2 here's a quote from the OU,https://www.ou.org/torah/mitzvot/taryag/mitzvah296/ "Just as refusing to die when necessary is a chillul Hashem, dying to defend the faith is a kiddush Hashem (hence the term “to die al kiddush Hashem”). This is only necessary under the following conditions: when ordered to commit acts of murder, idolatry, or adultery/incest, and during a time of forced conversion imposed by non-Jewish authorities." So they specify idolatry, but they also include forced conversion imposed by non-Jewish authorities, which could include heretical beliefs but not AvodZ? – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:44
  • @warz3 That latter category is the Shas Dochak I mentioned in my original comment. According to some shitos, you have to be willing to give your life even for a dirabbanan during a time of public religious persecution. Avodah Zarah and the other two you must *always* give your life for, other mitzvos are only during shas dochak. – Isaac Kotlicky Apr 02 '15 at 15:50
  • @IsaacKotlicky Shas Dochak is a blanket term for religious persecution (i.e. Syrian Greeks, Hadrian, etc.) where they tried to stop us from various mitzvos, I'm not entirely sure the OU is mentioning forced conversion as an example of Shas Dochak – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 15:53
  • See http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28390/conversion-to-islam – wfb Apr 02 '15 at 16:12
  • @wfb so basically its a machlokes rishonim on Islam, with the RamBam (seemingly) saying its "okay" because even though it denies the Torah it isn't idol worship; this is still ambiguous because the RamBam may have ruled like that for Islam in particular for a large variety of reasons (don't want to specify) that would make it unique with regards to general heresy/blasphemy. Would he say the same thing about "Blessing" the divine name etc. etc. – warz3 Apr 02 '15 at 16:18
  • @warz3 I suspect that megadef does not constitute heresy because it does not imply denial of God – wfb Apr 03 '15 at 20:56
  • @wfb I would include the megadef in this question – warz3 Apr 06 '15 at 17:42

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