What does Kares actually mean?

Question

I want to give a shiur in Shul about Shabbat and how it Rambam and others say that one gets Kares if one doesn't keep it and it says in the Chumash 'that he is cut of from his people'.

A person came up to me and got annoyed saying I was a fundamentalist and says that it means that you are cut off from your community, not in the afterlife and that Kares doesn't mean you lose your afterlife. I quoted him the Rambam and he said that Rambam wrote a book 10 years later contradicting himself?

My questions is, what does Kares actually mean? and do you have any sources/names of rabbi's?

related (dupe?) http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/30805/what-are-the-implications-of-karet/43474#43474 — Y e z, Aug 17 '14 at 02:00
@YEZ, both questions are asking whether kares applies to the afterlife. Seems like a duplicate to me, no? — msh210, Aug 19 '14 at 06:34
@YEZ yes, as one of the answers there doesn't answer this question — ertert3terte, Aug 20 '14 at 01:38
@ShmuelBrin Isn't that just a lacking in the answer there, not to the fact that this question is already asked? Someone answering the question there, as asked there, would answer this question. Why is it any different than if there would just not be any answers there? It remains the same question. — Y e z, Aug 20 '14 at 01:39
Related but not so helpful: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/17377/3 — WAF, Aug 20 '14 at 13:17

score 2 · Accepted Answer · answered Aug 21 '14 at 19:03

2

The Ramban on Vayikra 18:29 discusses three types of Kares.

One is dying young, but retaining a portion in the world to come - both the spiritual world and the ultimate world of the Resurrection.

The second is living a longer life, but losing the world of souls after death, but still retaining a portion in the Resurrection.

(The Ramban - pace the Rambam - holds that the Resurrection is the ultimate world, and the world of souls is an intermediate stage).

Which one of those two things happens depends on the worthiness of the person and their general conduct outside of this sin.

The third option is for specific particularly egregious sins (like idolatry and blasphemy). There the person loses a place in the Resurrection as well.

As far as I know, no traditional Jewish source supports this idea of "being cut off from your community" having no impact beyond relationships with other Jews. However, apparently some academics have tried to say that the meaning is excommunication. This is not a view supported by traditional Jewish sources, as far as I could determine.

answered Aug 21 '14 at 19:03

Yishai

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Thanks so much. I have been waiting ages for this. You say 'egregious sins like idolatry', however Eruvin 69B says idolatry and Shabbat desecration are of equal gravity? So to include Shabbat in the most egregious sins? – thegoon2013 Aug 21 '14 at 20:54
Also, it says, Mot Umat, I heard that means Mot = BOlam Haseh and Umat = BOlam Haba. Are there are sources for this? – thegoon2013 Aug 21 '14 at 20:55
@MosheBaron, re: Shabbos maybe. Not clear if the Ramban is exhaustive or not. Re: Mot Umat - Perhaps you are thinking of Sanhedrin 64b - הכרת תכרת הכרת בעולם הזה תכרת לעולם הבא. Cut off from this world and the next? – Yishai Aug 21 '14 at 21:01
Ah yes. Is it the general attitude to that phrase, or do other Rabbis suggest an alternate explanation. What is the exact translation of Mot Umat? – thegoon2013 Aug 21 '14 at 21:06
@MosheBaron, The gemarra is talking about Kares, in english you would translate that as "he shall surely be cut off" which is emphasis - and how Rabbi Yishmoel understands it there. Rabbi Akiva puts the cut off in this world and the next. Mot Umat is the same applied to the death penalty מות יומת - he shall surely die. Google tells me the עקידת יצחק - a late Rishon - has that drasha on that posuk as well. – Yishai Aug 21 '14 at 21:14
@MosheBaron, I'm not aware of a completely different approach to this issue. There are variations - dying early, dying childless (or having existing minor children die), losing the world to come completely. But it is all in this theme. – Yishai Aug 21 '14 at 21:17
Ah, thanks very much. Lastly, the Rambam seems to contradict himself. He says that one is punished in Gehinom, but his soul is destroyed (obliterated). What is the final conclusion? – thegoon2013 Aug 22 '14 at 11:26
@MosheBaron He says his soul is burnt and scattered under the feet of the Tzaddikim. As far as I understand, that means that it does not experience or appreciate G-dliness in the world of souls, rather sits in a limbo until the Resurrection. – Yishai Aug 22 '14 at 15:33
@Yishai If somebody suffers the "kares" under any of these three future penalties, then what exactly immediately happens to the individual? Does he carry on living inside the same house as his Jewish family, without any further restriction on him? – ninamag Aug 31 '17 at 10:24

What does Kares actually mean?

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