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This is related to this question, but isn't the same thing.

This answer maintains that aliens (ie. extra-terrestrial beings) may exist but can't have free will because (according to the Lubavitcher Rebbe)

Free choice is only possible because G-d gave us the Torah. Without free choice, observing Torah and Mitzvot would be a sham. Therefore, when G-d gave us commandments, he gave with it the ability to truly choose whether to do them or not. It is because of the Torah that we have free choice. Since the Torah was only given to the Jewish people here on earth, we must say that any extra-terrestrial being does not have free will.

And yet, earlier in the answer, it states

'Curse you Meroz,' said the messenger of the Lord, 'curse you bitterly (you) inhabitants thereof,' because they came not to the aid of the Lord, to the aid of the Lord against the mighty.

The Talmud (Mo'ed Kattan 16A - English on page 59 here) brings two opinions of who or what Meroz is. According to one of the opinions, Meroz is the name of a star. So Devorah and Barak are cursing the inhabitants of a star (i.e. aliens) for not coming to their aid in battle.

If it is the case that the Merozians have no free will then why would Devora and Barak curse them for not getting involved? They had no choice whether to get involved or not? Surely the fact that Devora and Barak did curse them is evidence that they do/did have free will?

Moses Supposes
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  • I see 2 main ways to deal with this, either support the Lubavitcher Rebbe' school of thought by explaining how they would deal with the kashe, or to demonstrate that their thesis of free will is incorrect, in which case the kashe falls away. Which are you looking for? – Rabbi Kaii Dec 28 '23 at 10:44
  • Either - I can't think of an answer to the first, and the second seems somewhat surprising that he wouldn't have thought of this, so it seems like a problem to me – Moses Supposes Dec 28 '23 at 11:22
  • @RabbiKaii As long as it answers the question – Moses Supposes Dec 28 '23 at 11:25
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    "Meroz is the name of a star. So Devorah and Barak are cursing the inhabitants of a star (i.e. aliens)" You have a bit of a jump here. The Gemara doesn't mention inhabitants of a star, or aliens. It simply says a star. Stars were often understood to have astrological influence over earth. Accordingly, the more likely interpretation ought be that the complaint is that this astrological force didn't favorably exert its influence over earth and push the battle their way. – Deuteronomy Dec 28 '23 at 11:58
  • @Deuteronomy I'm specifically raising a question on the linked answer (corrected - link was wrong) which quotes an interpretation of it from Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan and the Lubavitcher Rebbe as referring to extraterrestrial aliens – Moses Supposes Dec 28 '23 at 12:02
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    @Deuteronomy so that just reframes the question to "why curse a star/mazal, given that it doesn't have free will"? – Rabbi Kaii Dec 28 '23 at 12:12
  • Are they cursing it or saying that it is accursed? – Clint Eastwood Dec 28 '23 at 12:40
  • @RabbiKaii You can say either a) they were mistaken in their assumption that a star can have influence, or b) if we treat mazaloth as malakhim, we see that malakhim cannot deviate from their overarching imperative but have freedom within their designated function to use discretion in application. See MN 2:7. – Deuteronomy Dec 28 '23 at 12:44
  • @Deuteronomy a) if the star doesn't have free will, then even if it does have influence, it still doesn't make sense to curse it? b) same thing - if angels don't have free will then cursing them is nonsense. – Rabbi Kaii Dec 28 '23 at 12:48
  • The moon doesn't have free will, yet it was punished – shmosel Dec 28 '23 at 12:49
  • Possibly related? https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/129841/why-did-animals-deserve-to-perish-in-the-mabul – shmosel Dec 28 '23 at 12:49
  • @RabbiKaii a) thus the proposed mistake b) Malakhim have a limited range of will - not absolutely no free will. – Deuteronomy Dec 28 '23 at 13:17
  • @Deuteronomy we agree, this whole thing is very nuanced. – Rabbi Kaii Dec 28 '23 at 13:18
  • @shmosel my dog doesn't have free will, but I sometimes "punish" him. – Rabbi Kaii Dec 28 '23 at 13:33
  • Aside from the question of free will, I'd like to know what kind of creatures/beings the "inhabitants of Meroz" are exactly? – Menachem Dec 28 '23 at 15:27
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    @Menachem Me too, but I figured no one was going to answer that one! – Moses Supposes Dec 28 '23 at 17:45

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