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There are several sources which say that our spouse is predetermined from when/before we are born. I remember hearing a Rav say once that there are many people who we could be equally happy with as our spouse, and to choose someone and focus on making it the right choice after, which seems to contradict this.

I have noticed that the idea of a bashert often seems to be used quite negatively - e.g. a single person may think "is this my bashert?" and be perhaps too restrictive in their parameters for who they consider for a suitable spouse. Similarly, I think that in marriage, some people think "is this my bashert or did I marry the wrong person?"

I wonder if this is not what is meant be the idea of a bashert though and we are missing the point, and that accounts for the idea that we could be equally happy with many people. I suspect that the point is that we should try to think of our spouse as "this is the person who Hashem has decided should be my spouse" and that it should be something that strengthens our marriages, not weakens them. Obviously, this only works to a point and I'm not talking about assuming that in an abusive marriage or where a couple are clearly such a bad match that continuing the marriage is clearly a bad idea.

Practically, I suppose that the point is that we should not assume we know who our bashert is until we are engaged, and from then on to assume it is the person who we are engaged/married to.

Is this an idea that anyone has come across before? Is there a source for it? Are there any alternative ways to look at the concept that I haven't covered?

Moses Supposes
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    Could you please [edit] to rephrase this more clearly as a question, perhaps along the lines of "are there sources that indicate how we should emotionally relate to the concept of bashert with respect to actual relationships?" As it is, this reads as a statement with a question mark bolted onto the end. – Isaac Moses Dec 08 '23 at 13:37
  • @IsaacMoses That's not really the question - I'm looking to find out if there is a source for this idea, or that it is even the "correct" meaning. I'm not really sure what the problem is? – Moses Supposes Dec 08 '23 at 13:40
  • Short answer: people are claiming "leave this to G-d" when cut-and-try Halacha would tell you "make your best determination." For instance, one is allowed to get engaged during the Nine Days "lest some other fellow come along and get her." Gasp! But what about bashert?! Half of tractates Kiddushin and Kesubos are about behaviors so egregious that they void the wedding, or demand its termination. – Shalom Dec 08 '23 at 13:45
  • It's a bit like one interpretation of the Mishna's line of "the best doctors go to Hell." If a doctor thinks he or she is so pious and it's all in G-d's hands, to the point that they don't do enough worldly endeavors to hone their skill ... well ... they're gonna get a lot of their clients into Heaven. – Shalom Dec 08 '23 at 13:47
  • See https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1823/heres-my-devar-torah-do-any-of-the-commentaries-say-this and linked meta posts for some thoughts on this from of question post. – Isaac Moses Dec 08 '23 at 13:48
  • @IsaacMoses I've seen that before, but as far as I'm aware, it isn't actually against the rules on MY? – Moses Supposes Dec 08 '23 at 14:11
  • If it was clearly against the rules, I'd've closed this post. These are my thoughts and requests. As a matter of copy-editing, I would insist on at least making the final line, which ends in a question mark, a question rather than a statement. – Isaac Moses Dec 08 '23 at 14:14
  • @IsaacMoses That's fair enough. Is it better now? – Moses Supposes Dec 08 '23 at 14:21
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    It's better. Thanks. – Isaac Moses Dec 08 '23 at 14:24
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    The above will work if we agree that Hashem won't let us marry anyone who is not our bashert. Therefore it really doesn't matter too much who we marry and we can focus on sensible things. Once those sensible things are in place, we propose, and if Hashem lets the ring go on the finger, then that's 100% confirmation that this is bashert. This is a widespread understanding of bashert. – Rabbi Kaii Dec 08 '23 at 15:21
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    @RabbiKaii I think there is also a widespread misunderstanding of it! – Moses Supposes Dec 09 '23 at 18:24
  • @MosesSupposes true but what's the relevance? MY, I've been recently told, is not for advocacy, even a tiny bit :) – Rabbi Kaii Dec 09 '23 at 20:00
  • related: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/131154/is-it-possible-to-use-free-will-to-avoid-getting-married/131277#131277 – Rabbi Kaii Dec 09 '23 at 20:08
  • @RabbiKaii I'm sure there are cases where it isn't the right person, so I don't think we can say that Hashem won't let us marry the wrong person, and I think that is taking the concept far too literally. I'm suggesting that the whole point in the concept is that it is to strengthen our marriage by encouraging us to assume by default that our spouse is designated by Hashem, and that outside of that context, it isn't something that we should focus on. – Moses Supposes Dec 09 '23 at 20:13
  • @MosesSupposes I and the "widespread understanding" that I quote totally disagree but you have what to stand on (I have yet to see a source though, but at least your understanding is out there in the wild from my experience) – Rabbi Kaii Dec 09 '23 at 20:15

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