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Many identifying as Christians teach that sinners will suffer eternal conscious torment, but I'm wondering what the Jewish view is. Is there an argument from the Tanakh that some will undergo eternal conscious torment?

For clarification, I am not referring to eternal punishment in general. For example, sinners being dead eternally (sometimes called annihilationism or conditional immortality) can qualify as eternal punishment, but that is not within the scope of my question. Rather, I am referring to sinners living forever in torment. Does this teaching have any support from the Tanakh? If so, in what passages?

The Editor
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    Does this answer your question? Eternal Gehinom – Binyomin Apr 10 '23 at 22:34
  • Comparative religion is off topic – Dude Apr 10 '23 at 22:52
  • @Binyomin Thanks for the suggestion, but my question is about whether a specific passage or passages in the Tanakh contain references to eternal conscious torment, not whether the Talmud teaches eternal conscious torment in general. – The Editor Apr 11 '23 at 01:56
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    @Dude My question isn't about comparing religions per se. The view among those identifying as Christians is more of a springboard from which I ask my question. – The Editor Apr 11 '23 at 01:56
  • The Torah does not mention heaven or hell. That doesn't mean there is any such place. The Torah just doesn't mention it. It's not the focus. – Turk Hill Apr 11 '23 at 02:21
  • @TheEditor, yes, the topic I linked (as well as my comment to the answer below) contains two Tanach-quotations about this: Daniel 12:2, Yeshaya 66:24. – Binyomin Apr 11 '23 at 05:56
  • @Binyomin sorry to risk causing upset but please demonstrate that those pasukim are talking about eternal torment, in an answer. They emphatically are not, and quoting them without any context might cause very grave (life or death) issues that are not worth it imo. Please take me seriously, please be open to my point of view. I am not trying to denigrate any Rabbonim who say otherwise. There are many things to be sensitive about and this is one of them too. – Rabbi Kaii Apr 11 '23 at 12:42

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The Gemara in Rosh Hashanah 17b (based on the last verse in Isaiah) says as follows:

אֲבָל הַמִּינִין וְהַמָּסוֹרוֹת וְהָאֶפִּיקוֹרְסִים שֶׁכָּפְרוּ בַּתּוֹרָה, וְשֶׁכָּפְרוּ בִּתְחִיַּית הַמֵּתִים, וְשֶׁפֵּירְשׁוּ מִדַּרְכֵי צִבּוּר, וְשֶׁנָּתְנוּ חִיתִּיתָם בְּאֶרֶץ חַיִּים, וְשֶׁחָטְאוּ וְהֶחְטִיאוּ אֶת הָרַבִּים, כְּגוֹן יָרׇבְעָם בֶּן נְבָט וַחֲבֵירָיו — יוֹרְדִין לְגֵיהִנָּם וְנִידּוֹנִין בָּהּ לְדוֹרֵי דּוֹרוֹת, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְיָצְאוּ וְרָאוּ בְּפִגְרֵי הָאֲנָשִׁים הַפּוֹשְׁעִים בִּי וְגוֹ׳״.

Translation:

But the heretics; and the informers; and the apostates [apikorsim]; and those who denied the Torah; and those who denied the resurrection of the dead; and those who separated from the ways of the Jewish community and refused to share the suffering; and those who cast their fear over the land of the living; and those who sinned and caused the masses to sin, for example, Jeroboam, son of Nebat, and his company; all of these people descend to Gehenna and are judged there for generations and generations, as it is stated: “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have rebelled against Me; for their worm shall not die; neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh” (Isaiah 66:24).

Tosafos (Bava Metzia 58b) explains that this means that those mentioned in the list above - if they did not repent in their lifetime - remain in Gehinom longer than all the other sinners, who remain there only for a year

The Rama Mipano in his book “עשרה מאמרות” in ״מאמר חיקור הדין חלק ה׳ פרק א״ writes that this does not mean that they will remain there eternally, but rather for a longer time than the rest

שלום
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  • Thanks for bringing this answer that clarifies the Talmudic opinion of these verses. The short answer is no, there is no reference to eternal torment in Tanach. There are two passages that might be viewed that way, and this clarifies from one or two angles how they are not. Short answer: no. – Rabbi Kaii Apr 11 '23 at 12:45
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No absolutely not there is not a single pasuk or reference in Torah about eternal suffering of any kind [in fact, there is hardly a reference to gehinom, or afterlife in general at all, but that's only tangentially related]. Eternal torment is not a Jewish concept and you are not allowed to believe it, as it implies evil goes on forever, chas veshalom.

Rabbi Kaii
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    Daniel 12:2, Yeshaya 66:24. Rosh Hashana 17a. – Binyomin Apr 10 '23 at 21:53
  • What does דִרְא֥וֹן mean Binyomin? Where is eternal torment or suffering referenced here? I stand 100% by my answer, those things are forbidden to believe and not Jewish concepts. As for the aggadic source, the OP isn't asking for those, and those are also not about eternal suffering. If there was scope to deal with it here, I'd show it but I and others have in other answers on other questions – Rabbi Kaii Apr 10 '23 at 22:11
  • Rabbi Kaii I suggest instead of opening a whole new discussion about this, just close this question because it is a duplicate (see my comment to the question), and if you have objection, object there please. – Binyomin Apr 10 '23 at 22:28
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    I personally take it very sensitively when good frum Jews are being stigmatized in such a self-confident style. Read the answer there and you'll see that you just announced your opinion about the author of the Sefer HaIkkarim (for example). – Binyomin Apr 10 '23 at 22:31
  • @Binyomin please please don't take it personally or see it as stigmatization dear yid! It's not about you or the author of the Sefer HaIkkarim (who I am sure is making a very good and subtle point that should be discussed in full rather than brought as a fragmentary opinion), it is about the evil mind trap that the authors of the NT and many other false religions invented, which terrifies people, with consequences..My confidence is based on sources of high calibre names too, and is used so as to give these people hope that they can free themselves of this terrible torture that they live with. – Rabbi Kaii Apr 10 '23 at 22:46
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    Rabbi Kaii, that is indeed a wonderful and praiseworthy ambition! But still, it doesn't validate to disregard a long list of neviim, amoraim and rishonim. – Binyomin Apr 10 '23 at 22:53
  • @Binyomin I don't believe I am doing so otherwise I wouldn't dare. – Rabbi Kaii Apr 10 '23 at 22:54
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – Binyomin Apr 11 '23 at 12:47