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It says in Sforim that one shouldn't learn Kabbalah from any of the students of the Arizal except for R' Chaim Vital (as they didn't understand the Arizal properly).

I have never seen such a worry when it comes to classic "Nigleh" (like Gemaras, Mefarshim, and even Halacha) seforim. Why are we so much more worried of misinterpretation of Kabbalah than Halacha?

Adam Mosheh
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ertert3terte
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  • Because Mis-interpreting Kabbalah leads to unsavory Halachic practices blamed on so called Kabbalistic texts e.x Shabsai Tzvi and Matir Assurim allowed Aishes Ish as per Noda Beyhuda – simchastorah Dec 29 '11 at 03:37
  • @simchashatorah 1) misinterpreting Halacha could result in a very wrong psak also. 2) How are the writings of R' Chaim Vital any less subject to misinterpretation than, say, the Emek Hamelech (a contemporary)? – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 03:40
  • The 5th Lubavitcher Rebbe actually quotes and learns from one of these other students in the beginning of the hemshech Samech-Vov. – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 04:02
  • @HodofHod It's interesting, as IIRC he quotes the Mishnas Chassidim there. Yet the Mishnas Chassidim was one of the major opinions holding Tzimtzum Kepshuta. Moreover the Rebbe says that the Tz"Tz said that all of his writings were from the AriZal. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:16
  • @HodofHod Though the Rebbe pointed out in the letter, that the Rabbeim had a unique Mesora to know what is accurate and what isn't. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:16
  • Just want to clarify that what ShmuelBrill meant is that the Tzemach Tzedek said that all of the Mishnas Chassidim's writings were from the Arizal. btw, what sefer is that pdf from? – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 04:23
  • @HodofHod seems like hosafos to Sichos Kodesh. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:26
  • @HodofHod he was before the Arizal. Though (I don't remember where ) R' Chaim Vital said that all mekubalim from the time of the Ramban until the Arizal aren't ?exact?. (I don't remember the exact word) – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:29
  • @ShmuelBrill you will also find this in Daat UTevna by the Ben Ish Hai. – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 21:45
  • @HodofHod http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20123&st=&pgnum=12 – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 22:03
  • @HodofHod not learning Kabbalah from people between the Ramban and the Arizal. Oh, and also a source of not learning other Talmidei HaArizal. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 22:11
  • @HodofHod first column V'hiney until the next column v'da – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 22:20
  • @HodofHod if you want also see Nahar Shalom pg. 34 (140 NEW EDITION) as I mentioned. – Hacham Gabriel Dec 30 '11 at 00:28
  • @HodofHod http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d7LBqZtYGWA#! from min 14-18 he talks about how everyone should learn Zohar and Kabala and how people should help give out cd's. Also how every shul, house, and bet midrash should have classes in Zohar. – Hacham Gabriel Jan 24 '12 at 23:02

2 Answers2

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First of all the source for this is in Nahar Shalom pg. 34 (140 new edition) by Rabbi Shalom Shaarbi. Also, just want to remind people that I don't want to get into Kabbala here which I always remind people is Asur (see Shut HaRashba 1:414, Yabia Omer 10:23, Yechawe Daat 4:47, Rama Y"D 246:6, Or LeSion Helek HaTorah, ch. 7 and more). The reason is because the word Kabala means "receive" or "accept". Therefore, everything that is learned has to be from Eliyahu HaNavi. Halacha is something we call "Lo Bashmayhim Hi- not in Heaven" meaning it has nothing do with what the Metziut (fact) is, it is based on Rov - majority or according to some logic. Kabbala is not like that, Kabbala from the Ari is called by the Rashash "Divre Elokim Hayim- words of G-d that are alive" (see Eruvin 13b) meaning that they are literally the Metziut. Therefor we must only accept the Arizal because he was appointed by Hashem to transmit Kabala through R' Haim Vital. As I said before, it isn't like Halacha where the decisions are made down here (Lo BaShamyim Hi), but it is "Divre Elokim Hayim- words of G-d."

Please tell me if you need more than this, and precisely what you need.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, this applies to ALL other Kabalists as well (including Shaare Ora, Chassidus, and all others that don't follow the exact path of R' Haim Vital, Rashash, and Ben Ish Hai.

Hacham Gabriel
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  • Hold on, Kabbalah is asur? I thought it was just that some people hold there's an age limit? – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 03:54
  • Even if the other Talmidei Ha'AriZal didn't say the accurate Metzius, would we not say Eilu Vaeilu Divrei Elokim Chaim by them also? So why would it be worse then studying the opinion of Beis Shammai? – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 03:55
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    @HodofHod I don't think I wrote Kabbala is Asur period. I wrote that online it would be Asur (see Maharsha Kidushin 70 and Maharsha Hagiga 13). – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 03:56
  • @ShmuelBrill I think that's exactly the point, only in halacha do we say "Eilu VeEilu" but not Kabala, because as we see in the name- kabala it means there is only one true tradition unlike halacha. It's different from Beis Shamay because sometimes we do follow Beis Shammai or at least Bedieved sometimes, but here it isn't like that- it is always and always will be Arizal. – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 03:58
  • At least some mekubalim disagree. – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 04:05
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    though in http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16013&st=&pgnum=328 the Lubavitcher Rebbe explains that even after a "psak" in Kabalah there is a concept of Eilu Va'Eilu Divrei Elokim Chaim(in reference to the concept of Tzimtzum Kpshuta or not). – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:06
  • @HodofHod I mean Rav Benayahu Shemueli (the Rosh Yeshiva at Nahar Shalom) has 10's maybe 100's of lectures in Zohar on some websites. I guess they are relying on the fact that there are going to be the proper people learning from their site. Anyways...are you suggesting that I should teach kabala online? – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 04:07
  • Not necessarily, I just was surprised to learn that some thought it was asur. – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 04:09
  • @ShmuelBrill you see the only Mahloket here is whether we say elu veElu. However, I don't think the Mahloket is whether we are allowed to study other kabbalsitic texts...Do you agree? – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 04:11
  • @HodofHod http://mekubal.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/teaching-kabbalah-online/#comments – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 04:13
  • Aha, ok, so there seems to be some disagreement on this. – HodofHod Dec 29 '11 at 04:17
  • @H'Gabriel no. The Machlokes is Tzimtzum Kepshuto or not. The Rebbe writes that the psak is Tzimtzum lo Kepshuto. Yet the Rebbe says that according to svara tzimtzum kepshuto has a source. (If anything, he said that according to Sechel Hapashut it makes more sense than Tzimtzum Lo Kepshuto). So Eilu Vaeilu is still there, just as a final (practical) ruling (nowadays) we say Tzimtzum lo Kepshuto. – ertert3terte Dec 29 '11 at 04:21
  • @ShmuelBrill I'm talking about the Machlokes as a klal. Whether Tzimtzum is Kipshuto or not is a different machlokes (a huge one BTW). According to the Rashash- only the Ari is Divre Elokim Chaim (in general) but according to the Rebbe (in general) there is room for machlokes in kabala. – Hacham Gabriel Dec 29 '11 at 04:26
  • @HachamGabriel can i be your Talmid? – FalseMessiah Sep 07 '20 at 03:30
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I think this is in regard to the teaching of the Ari, specifically, not Kabbalah in general. The Ari did not himself write down most of his teachings. Several of his disciples did so after his death. One of them was Rabbi Hayyim Vital, whose written versions of the teachings make up what are now generally known as Kitvey Ha-Ari. In the second preface of Rabbi Hayyim Vital printed at the beginning of Etz Hayyim, he writes:

דע כי קצת מחברינו כתבו להם ספרים מה ששמעו ממורי זלה"ה וזולתו על שמו וכולם כתבו הדברים בתוספת וגרעון כפי בחינת הכותבים וידיעתן ובהבנתן הניחו מקום לכמה קושיות לכן אין לסמוך על אותן הספרים וצריך להרחיק מהם

You should know that some of our colleagues have written for themselves books of what they heard from my teacher and other things in his name. And all of them wrote with additions and omissions according to the qualities of the writer. And in their understanding of things, they left open space for several difficulties. Therefore, one should not rely on those books and one should distance one's self from them.

So the source is Rabbi Hayyim Vital and the issue is that he felt he was the only accurate transmitter of the teachings of the Ari from among the circle of disciples.

paquda
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