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Israel Shahak claims in his Jewish History, Jewish Religion (1994, p.91) that "according to the Jewish religion, ... a Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court", and that "to cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all", while "the murder of a Jew is a capital offence." Is this true?

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André Levy
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  • https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/israel-and-anti-gentile-traditions/ – mbloch Oct 18 '21 at 08:05
  • It happens in Torah law that something is absolutely strictly forbidden but punished differently after the fact depending on whether it happened to a Jew or a non-Jew. That is because sometimes Torah commandments apply more strictly between those who believe in the Torah than those who don't. For instance the obligation to bring back a lost object applies more strictly between Jews (who return objects to each other) than between a Jew and a non-Jew (since the latter don't have the same legal obligation) – mbloch Oct 18 '21 at 08:08
  • @mbloch: "Torah commandments apply more strictly between those who believe in the Torah than those who don't." Me: Need one believe in the Torah to be a Jew? Torah: No. – André Levy Oct 18 '21 at 08:18
  • You are correct. I should have written between Jews and non Jews – mbloch Oct 18 '21 at 08:19
  • Regarding your example, @mbloch, Shahak claims that "robbery of a Gentile by a Jew is not forbidden outright but only under certain circumstances such as ‘when the Gentiles are not under our rule’, but is permitted ‘when they are under our rule’." MJL: "Jews have yet to properly confront it." So here we are. – André Levy Oct 18 '21 at 08:28
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    are you asking whether it is "murder" as a technically labeled cause of action under law, or whether it is punishable as a crime with whatever other label is used or whether it is condoned and not considered a crime/sin? – rosends Oct 18 '21 at 10:20
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    Does your question take into account that it used to be (and in very limited capacity remains) that the Jewish and Gentile legal systems were separated? The implication namely is that the question often is whether something should be handled by the Gentile courts or whether it is a matter of the Beth Din. it is not clear from your question whether the legal context is taken into consideration – RonP Oct 18 '21 at 10:57
  • Per Meshech Chachma in Parshas Mishpatim "Vechi Yasid" (21/17) - before Matan Torah Jews were "Chayav Misah" and thereafter not because the "blood of bnei yisrael" is important to Hashem. The Meshech Chacham explains that the killer will be punished byedei shamayim – Yoreinu Oct 18 '21 at 15:48
  • Those sound like good answers, @RonP and Shlomo, not comments to the question. No, RonP, I didn't consider anything else but Shahak's claim and sources, very much in the spirit of the MJL article mbloch cited. – André Levy Oct 18 '21 at 23:24
  • I'm asking whether Shahak's claim is true, @rosends. – André Levy Oct 18 '21 at 23:31
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    When beis din kill someone for murder, they do so on behalf of the murdered man, beis din have no authority to act on behalf of a murdered non-Jew, however. It is probably worthwhile noting that according to the Meshech Chachmah, for a Jew to murder a non-Jew is such a great sin that even the natural death of the Jew would not expiate him for this sin. – pcoz Oct 19 '21 at 00:20
  • @AndréLevy bu that's my point. Shahak's claim is incomplete so it is impossible to discuss it without more information. – rosends Oct 19 '21 at 00:28
  • Do you mean my quote of Shahak's claim is incomplete, @rosends? – André Levy Oct 26 '21 at 23:22
  • @AndréLevy if SHahak sums up the law as "a Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court" but, as other commentators have pointed out, the legal system is significantly subtler and more complex then he, by not giving additional details, leaves an incomplete claim. – rosends Oct 26 '21 at 23:25
  • That was indeed my question, rosends, which seems to have been adequately addressed by @mevaqesh's answer to the associated question. – André Levy Oct 29 '21 at 01:32

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