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What I mean by “non lmaaseh” are sugyas in shas that most probably will very scarcely be nogeah to our daily life. I understand that to learn these sugyas well will give us a deep understanding of how to think in learning and also take us on a journey to understand the depth of HKBH’s holy Torah. But the bottom line is this: in yeshivas bachrim are encouraged to learn these things and not really pushed to have a set seder in Shulchan Aruch, the outcome of this are bachrim knowing some sugyas well but at the same time violating shabbos unknowingly! Is there some reason for how we can allow such a thing and why minhag Yisroel has become to learn this way?

(Specifically looking for mekoros from rishonim / early mid achronim whom agree with such an approach to this learning)

Dov
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Mevakeish
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    Hello and welcome to Mi Yodeya. Your question title mentions halacha lemaaseh sugyos, which implies gemarra rishonim etc. Then you mention a Shulchan Aruch seder and knowing hilchos Shabbos well. What are you proposing? Learning all halachos from the gemarra down? Just SA? Just MB? In any event I imagine this question isn't answerable as it can only be speculation. – robev Jun 01 '21 at 16:56
  • @robev more like why spending a lot more time on non lmaaseh sugyas is more pushed than spending a lot of time on lmaaseh sugyas – Mevakeish Jun 01 '21 at 16:59
  • And maybe are there famous achronim/ rishonim who write the importance of learning this way – Mevakeish Jun 01 '21 at 17:01
  • Historically this seems to be a recent phenomenon so I don't think rishonim or achronim would address it. – robev Jun 01 '21 at 17:26
  • @robev there are many Rishonim who wrote on derech halimud. Definitely many early achronim such as the orchos tzadikim etc... – TwoOs Jun 01 '21 at 17:45
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    @TwoOs correct but they didn't address "Is there some reason for how we can allow such a thing and why minhag Yisroel has become to learn this way?" – robev Jun 01 '21 at 17:46
  • related: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/45399 – msh210 Jun 01 '21 at 19:34
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    Does this answer your question? Why learn Gemara? – Salmononius2 Jun 01 '21 at 20:41
  • "I understand that to learn these sugyas well will give us a deep understanding of how to think in learning and also take us on a journey to understand the depth of HKBH’s holy Torah." This sounds like an answer to your question, even if you might not like it. And for what it's worth, many yeshivas do have some sort of Halachah Seder, admittedly much shorter than the Sedarim focusing on Gemara. – Salmononius2 Jun 01 '21 at 20:42
  • @Salmononius2 right, although it’s all nice as long as you are holding in Halacha . So I think lmaaseh there’s no easy answer. Klal yisroel has faced many issues in having a strong dveikus to HKBH, hence the chissidish/ mussar movements. So I think it’s kdai while one is in yeshiva to learn ... how to learn and why to learn (dveikus ) which may be the reason for the deep lomdus. But if one does not stay in kollel I think it’s kdai to then put more of an emphasis on learning lhalacha more. – Mevakeish Jun 01 '21 at 20:47
  • As TwoOs pointed out, the Orchos Tzadikim writes against this type of learning, from about 650 years ago. – Mordechai Jun 01 '21 at 21:20
  • This is probably based on the principle (Eichah Rabbah, Pesichta 2) of הלואי אותי עזבו ותורתי שמרו, מתוך שהיו מתעסקין בה, המאור שבה היה מחזירן למוטב – The GRAPKE Jun 02 '21 at 06:42
  • THE CC writes it is more important to learn kodshim than yivamos. – interested Jun 02 '21 at 10:10
  • In my yeshiva a halachah seder was prioritized as part of the daily seder, in addition to all the non-halachah-l'maaseh gemara we learned. – Yehuda Oct 30 '21 at 23:19

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The Shulchan Aruch Harav in Hilchos Talmud Torah, and the Iglei Tal in his hakdamah, write that now that the main books have been written, the purpose of yeshiva is to teach students how to understand them.

So it makes sense that yeshivos pick topics that are the most challenging to study, with the idea of "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere."

That being said, the high schools I know also have time set aside to learn practical halacha from Mishnah Berurah. In post high-school yeshivos, students are expected to make their own time to learn practical halacha from a sefer of their choosing, because they are expected to no longer need guidance to understand practical halacha sefarim.

Eventually (ususally in Kollel), those who want to become rabbanim stop learning just Gemara and start to learn halacha b'iyun, using the Gemara skills they got when they were younger.

N.T.
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  • You failed to demonstrate how all non lemaaseh sugyos are harder than lemaaseh sugyos, which is the whole crux of your answer. – robev Jun 02 '21 at 05:48
  • The question was why study hard gemaros over practical ones. The questioner took it for granted that the ones studied in yeshiva are good for training. But if you want a source, the gemara says, One who wants to become wise should study Nezikin. Yeshivos also consider some tractates of Nashim to be suitably hard. – N.T. Jun 02 '21 at 08:50
  • You're equating non lemaaseh with hard; I don't see how that follows. You're also implying lemaaseh equals easier, which isn't true. Also nezikin is extremely lemaaseh, as is parts of Nashim. They're also hard to learn. – robev Jun 02 '21 at 09:34
  • I am not equating non-lemaaseh with hard. I am justifying learning non-lemaaseh in yeshivos if it is hard. – N.T. Jun 02 '21 at 10:28
  • But that is not a reason to learn non lemaaseh instead of lemaaseh if lemaaseh is or can be just as hard – robev Jun 02 '21 at 10:42
  • I answered the question using the assumptions of the questioner. If you would like to say that Nezikin is also lemaaseh, write your own answer. – N.T. Jun 02 '21 at 15:12
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – robev Jun 02 '21 at 15:38