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There is a law in the Gemara and brought in the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch. From Rambam end of Chapter 1 of Mishneh Torah Hilchos Rotzeach:

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Whenever a person can save another person's life, but he fails to do so, he transgresses a negative commandment, as Leviticus 19:16 states: "Do not stand idly by while your brother's blood is at stake."

Similarly, this commandment applies when a person sees a colleague drowning at sea or being attacked by robbers or a wild animal, and he can save him himself or can hire others to save him. Similarly, it applies when he hears gentiles or mosrim conspiring to harm a colleague or planning a snare for him, and he does not inform him and notify him of the danger.

And it applies when a person knows of a gentile or a man of force who has a complaint against a colleague, and he can appease the aggressor on behalf of his colleague, but he fails to do so. And similarly, in all analogous instances, a person who fails to act transgresses the commandment: "Do not stand idly by while your brother's blood is at stake."

יד

כָּל הַיָּכוֹל לְהַצִּיל וְלֹא הִצִּיל עוֹבֵר עַל (ויקרא יט טז) "לֹא תַעֲמֹד עַל דַּם רֵעֶךָ". וְכֵן הָרוֹאֶה אֶת חֲבֵרוֹ טוֹבֵעַ בַּיָּם. אוֹ לִסְטִים בָּאִים עָלָיו. אוֹ חַיָּה רָעָה בָּאָה עָלָיו. וְיָכוֹל לְהַצִּילוֹ הוּא בְּעַצְמוֹ. אוֹ שֶׁיִּשְׂכֹּר אֲחֵרִים לְהַצִּילוֹ וְלֹא הִצִּיל. אוֹ שֶׁשָּׁמַע עוֹבְדֵי כּוֹכָבִים אוֹ מוֹסְרִים מְחַשְּׁבִים עָלָיו רָעָה אוֹ טוֹמְנִין לוֹ פַּח וְלֹא גִּלָּה אֹזֶן חֲבֵרוֹ וְהוֹדִיעוֹ. אוֹ שֶׁיָּדַע בְּעַכּוּ''ם אוֹ בְּאוֹנֵס שֶׁהוּא בָּא עַל חֲבֵרוֹ וְיָכוֹל לְפַיְּסוֹ בִּגְלַל חֲבֵרוֹ לְהָסִיר מַה שֶּׁבְּלִבּוֹ וְלֹא פִּיְּסוֹ. וְכָל כַּיּוֹצֵא בִּדְבָרִים אֵלּוּ. הָעוֹשֶׂה אוֹתָם עוֹבֵר עַל לֹא תַעֲמֹד עַל דַּם רֵעֶךָ:

When a person sees a rodef pursuing a colleague to kill him, or a woman forbidden as an ervah to rape her, and he has the potential to save the victim and yet fails to do so, he has negated the observance of the positive commandment: "You must cut off her hand," and has transgressed two negative commandments: "You may not show pity," and "Do not stand idly by while your brother's blood is at stake."

That one has to go to any measures to save the life of another Jew. In some places this means even stealing the property of the other Jew, based on this rambam that anything except the big 3 can be done to save a life if a jew

Question is if this applies to the spiritual life if the Jew as well, meaning of a jew has idols can we steal then and break thek to prevent the Jew from chas veshalom owning idols?

If any mitzvah, including stealing, but minus the big 3, are overruled to save a Jewish life, then would idolatry, which is not overruled even to save a life, as it is one of the big 3, certainly be overruled by the lesser mitzvos, including stealing? Is this not a Kal vachomer?

robev
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B''H Bi'ezras -- Boruch Hashem
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  • You're probably looking for this – robev Sep 04 '20 at 02:46
  • @robev I don't understand the connection can you explain, this is talking about breaking shabbos to save ones daughter for converting (I think), is that related to stealing for idolatry – B''H Bi'ezras -- Boruch Hashem Sep 04 '20 at 03:07
  • Is owning idols considered [part of] one of the big 3? I thought only the performing of avodah zarah (praying before an idol, or servicing it) was. – Tamir Evan Sep 04 '20 at 06:03
  • Is it possible to ‘steal’ an idol? Aren’t they issurei hana’ah and therefore valueless, and possibly even ownerless? – Joel K Sep 04 '20 at 08:05
  • @joel oh interesting, so your suggesting possibly it would be permitted to simply take it out of the domain if the Jew and not even violate the commandment of stealing at all? – B''H Bi'ezras -- Boruch Hashem Sep 04 '20 at 08:32
  • @tamir good point, I was thinking of a case where the Jew owning them could give possible cause chas veshalom to their worship, and the stealing would prevent that. Alternatively I believe there is a halacha that one is not supposed to even look at an idol, though I'm not sure if they counts as worship as far as the big 3, good point... – B''H Bi'ezras -- Boruch Hashem Sep 04 '20 at 08:34
  • Earlier in the chapter you quote (halakhah 11), it says one may not kill another to prevent the latter from worshiping an idol, even though [the prohibition of] Avodah Zarah is fundamental to Judaism. It is a hard sell to say a lesser crime than murder would be permissible. It's definitely not a mi-Qal va-Chomer. As I see it, the whole point here is to prevent an imminent loss of life, not to prevent the willful violation of a [fundamental] Mitzvah. – Tamir Evan Sep 04 '20 at 09:57
  • @tamir the difference is that murder is one of the big 3, while stealing is not – B''H Bi'ezras -- Boruch Hashem Sep 04 '20 at 10:01
  • @Yaakov5777 "the difference is that murder is one of the big 3 ..." So what? The 3 are big for the obligation of Qidush ha-Shem in private for violation of Mitzvot for the personal enjoyment of the coercer, and at times of peace. When not coerced, or when coerced for the purpose of having the Torah violated in public (of 10 Jews), or when coerced privately at a time of Shemad, they are no bigger than any other Mitzvah. – Tamir Evan Sep 04 '20 at 11:00
  • If you can break shabbos to save someone from idolatry surely you can steal something... – robev Sep 04 '20 at 13:58
  • https://www.chabad.org/kids/article_cdo/aid/1660316/jewish/Young-Abraham.htm – rosends Sep 04 '20 at 14:02
  • Related:"Demolishing Idolatry sneakily"? – Tamir Evan Sep 18 '20 at 13:12

1 Answers1

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Rashi on Genesis 31:19:2 (2) ותגגב רחל את התרפים AND ROCHEL STOLE THE TERAPHIM — her intention was to wean her father from idol-worship (Genesis Rabbah 74:5).

Bkitzur:

If Rochel (pashtus a Jew) took away idols from her Dad so he (Goy) shouldn't worship them - then kal vchomer one should steal idols from (a Jew) so he shouldn't worship them either.

FalseMessiah
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  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – interested Sep 06 '20 at 19:58
  • This was the angle I thought of, immediately. I don't have the time to view the chat, so, I'd be interested in a summary of the issues, if relevant to the answer / question. – DanF Sep 07 '20 at 20:57
  • (1) It is open to question whether Rochel (or anyone pre-Matan Torah, for that matter) could be considered a Jew[ess], especially to the extent one can learn definitive Halakhah, as it applies to us today, from her actions. Her own husband was married to two sisters. (2) How commendable were Rochel's actions (as opposed to her intentions) here? (a) So commendable, that Ya'aqov (unaware of what she had done) told Lavan "With whoever you find your gods, they shall not live". That's what you say about someone who did a good act? ... – Tamir Evan Sep 16 '20 at 09:47
  • ... (b) So commendable are her actions, that next time we hear from her, is when she dies giving birth to Binyamin. (c) So commendable, that the Zohar says (I: 164b) that although Rochel did this to wean her father from idolatry, she was punished by not bringing up Binyamin or spending even a single hour in this world with him, due to her father's sorrow, despite her good intentions. – Tamir Evan Sep 16 '20 at 09:48
  • Machlokes HaPoskim if they kept the Mitzvohs, pashtus yes. Thus, she was a jewess. On a deeper level she's the mother of Jews (kyaduah). And if she stole from her father - a goy, then a Jew can steal from a Jew to prevent them from AZ – FalseMessiah Sep 18 '20 at 05:02
  • @FalseMessiah (1) Based on "Avot keeping Mitzvot", it's not pashtus at all that they kept all the Mitzvot, in the sense we are obligated to. (2) Mothers of Gerim are also mothers of Jews - that doesn't make them Jewesses. (3) Even if she was a Jewess, it doesn't mean that everything she did was according to Halakhah. (4) If it was right (as opposed to it being understandable) for her to steal from Lavan, why did Ya'aqov tell Lavan "With whomsoever thou findest thy gods, he shall not live"? – Tamir Evan Sep 18 '20 at 12:37
  • Pashtus one destroys idols that way a Jew doesn't stumble .. you gotta be a kofer to disagree – FalseMessiah Sep 21 '20 at 06:59
  • @FalseMessiah Neither the question, nor your answer, nor my comments to your answer, talk about destroying idols, but only about stealing them. – Tamir Evan Sep 21 '20 at 08:38
  • Chasuri Mechsara: Steal them and destroy them – FalseMessiah Sep 21 '20 at 17:34