0

In New York it’s dangerous for a grown-up to daven with a minyan. If a child says he wants to be Daven with a minyan - what is the right response? One could point out that he is not obligated in any case.

Avrohom Yitzchok
  • 47,518
  • 8
  • 47
  • 131
eli press
  • 1
  • 1
    The entire point of davening with a minyan is to fulfill the halacha. Davening with a minyan when the halacha tells you not to is like working on Saturday and keeping "Shabbos" on Tuesday. – Heshy Mar 18 '20 at 20:47
  • 1
    I edited the question so that it does not appear as a personal question that you should ask your Rabbi - which would not be on topic here. – Avrohom Yitzchok Mar 18 '20 at 20:52
  • 3
    R Zushe and R Elimelech one time we’re arrested and in the prison was a chamber pot, preventing them from davening. One was upset. His brother tells him The same Hashem who wants us to daven wants us now not to daven. They danced and sang celebrating their fulfilling hashems will you not daven. The guards seeing them being happy over the chamber pot removes it, hence allowing them to daven. – mroll Mar 18 '20 at 22:28
  • Very nice "it's not dangerous" for a child to get infected, but they'll be a carrier and infect those who are vulnerable. – robev Mar 18 '20 at 23:38
  • 1
    A ten year old is old enough to understand the danger involved and that one is required to follow the Posek. One should speak with the poaek as to why the shul is closed. – sabbahillel Mar 18 '20 at 23:49
  • Tell him the story about R' Meilech in jail. https://images.shulcloud.com/668/371479.mp3 – Naftali Tzvi Apr 07 '20 at 03:50

6 Answers6

7

Welcome and thanks for the question. I would suggest you quote the Psak Halachah from HoRav Hershel Schachter shlit”a.

The mitzvah to safeguard and preserve life overrides all mitzvos haTorah. It is not a midas chassidus to ignore saconas nefoshos. On the contrary, it is expressly and strictly forbidden. In the words of the Ba’alei ha Tosfos “domov be-rosho”; such an individual is culpable for any loss of life r”l that ensues. In light of expert medical opinion regarding the current catastrophic danger, the following measures are halachically required and must be adhered to by all.  Everyone should daven privately (be-yechedus). No minyonim should be formed in any venue.  Weddings should be celebrated with a quorum of ten, no more (minyan m’tzumtzom).  Brisin should be performed and celebrated without a quorum of ten (minyan).  Funerals r”l must also be curtailed to a bare quorum of ten.  Bar and Bas Mitzvah celebrations should be postponed.  Yeshivos should be closed immediately In the merit of the sacred mitzvah of attempting to preserve and protect life and our teshuvah (repentance), both communal and individual, may HKB”H (the Holy One, blessed be He) send the yeshuah (salvation). Rav Hershel Schachter

In the interest of good parenting they are additions you should make like how wonderful it is that he wants to daven with a minyan etc. but this is not the place.

Naftali Tzvi
  • 1,738
  • 6
  • 21
Avrohom Yitzchok
  • 47,518
  • 8
  • 47
  • 131
3

Rabbi Zev Leff once had an 80-something year-old congregant tell him my doctor said I can't fast on Yom Kippur this year -- but I've fasted for over 70 years -- I'm going to fast!

Rabbi Leff replied:

What you are doing is Avodah Zarah. Who cares if the foreign god you are worshiping is a statue called Baal, or a concept called Yom Kippur? Halacha, which we believe to be the will of G-d, says not to fast. So who exactly are you submitting to by fasting?

(I'd also point their friends or family to the Gemara in kiddushin about pious fools destroying the world ...)

Shalom
  • 132,602
  • 8
  • 193
  • 489
2

Welcome to Mi Yodeya Eli - great question! Rav Mordechai Willig mentioned in a shiur today (3/18) that one of the primary purposes of davening in a minyan is to be mekadesh shem shamayim b'rabim - sanctify His Name in public. If going to a minyan is against the government's regulations which have been accepted by the Rabbonim based on the universal decision of medical professionals, praying in a minyan would be considered a desecration of Hashem's Name. The entire purpose of sanctifying His Name is null and wiped out by the chillul Hashem.

(As Avraham Yitzchak wisely noted, it would be wise to praise the 10-year-old for wanting to daven with a minyan, mention how you wish you could too, and then explain why...and maybe encourage him to ask a Rav for psak. Rather than feeling invalidated, let him feel his question is beautiful and deserves serious consideration with the guidance of a Rav.)

NJM
  • 14,246
  • 2
  • 19
  • 57
2

This is really a parenting questions, and the Jewish context is incidental.

The answer to this question is the same as for any other "how do I tell my kids..." question. First ask how you would explain it to yourself (or how you would like it to be explained to you), then simplify that answer for your child.

You need to be sympathetic to the emotional components of your child's request. Its not just that he wants to go to shul. He has trouble breaking routine, especially due to something scary and unclear to him. He is unsure what to think about the corona virus and how it might affect him. And he needs help transitioning to a new routine, and will be emotionally stuck on his existing routine until he gets a new direction.

You should address all these issues together with the religious questions of minyan attendance. All in the same way - give him a message appropriate for yourself, but on his level.

When you speak to him, acknowledge the insecurities he is facing, and ask him for his feeling on them. Then describe the new rules to the him, and explain the general need to adjust our routines, sometimes radically, when life changes. Give him some idea what you expect over the next 2-3 months in general, and how minyan and other religious issues fit into that.

What you should not do - do not simply force him into a new reality by quoting Rabbanim. This forces an emotionally unhealthy break, since he is not being given a way to let go of the routine he had until now with a healthy understanding of what changed and what will change. This approach is basically demanding that he makes a major change in his approach in life simply because he was told to do so, which forces him to "throw out" who he was yesterday and adopt a new attitude which is being forced on him. Instead, you need to help him understand and adjust, so there is a clean, internal, emotionally healthy transition from what he picked up until now to the new reality he has to adjust to.

simyou
  • 1,837
  • 6
  • 14
1

There is a concept of onus rachmana patrei. That someone who cannot do something due to unforeseen circumstances is obsolved from his obligation . Per the poskim in NY a person should not pray with a minyan,and when one does not daven with a minyan that person is also performing the ratzon(will ) of HaShem.

In fact ,there is a famous story of Rav Yisrael Salnater who made kiddush on Yom Kippur in shul during a cholera outbreak to show that it is pikuach nefesh . In that situation it was a mitzvah to eat and drink on Yom kippur . So too in your case it is a mitzvah not to daven with a minyan due to potential pikuach nefesh.

sam
  • 41,686
  • 4
  • 80
  • 141
1

Welcome Eli and thanks for a good question.

When speaking with a 10 year old, it's important to keep in mind that your explanation needs to be on their level both intellectually and emotionally and also in a way that relates to their life experience. In that way, they will be able to absorb and digest what you offer.

What they have expressed to you, that they want to pray with a Minyan, is a good thing and something that should be encouraged.

It gives you the opportunity to explain to them in simple terms the idea behind a Minyan. That all the Jewish people, each and every one, are in truth, part of a single whole, like the limbs of your body.

And following this particular idea, the Torah teaches us that we are arranged, in a general way, following the model of our bodies, according to ten general categories. Some pertain to our brains which are in our head, some to our emotions which are based in our heart and some with our ability to perform actions. This last category is associated with our liver which, like the other organs of our digestive tract, help us to take in, absorb and connect properly to the outside, physical, material world.

So the ten, general, categories of the body, meaning all the limbs and organs, correspond to the ten individuals required to comprise a Minyan and the Minyan is viewed like the whole body.

But even though we know about these ten general categories, there are many others, just like in your body. Some are easily seen and some are difficult to see and detect, even hidden from sight.

In the same way, sometimes G-d allows us to behave like those parts of the body that are hidden from sight. In our example with the Minyan, sometimes you don't have to be seen with the ten publicly to still be a part of them.

And one of those times is when there is a danger to our health. This is because G-d also requires us to be healthy and to protect ourselves from harm. A healthy body is required of us in order to serve G-d properly.

And just like with our body, all those parts, those seen and those hidden, are still connected at all times.

And so, you can explain to the 10 year old, that if he is careful to begin his prayers at the same time that the Minyan is scheduled to begin praying, G-d will count him together with his local Minyan. He will be like one of those hidden parts of the body until the time that G-d makes it safe for him to rejoin the Minyan in an open and public way, to serve the Creator of us all with a healthy mind and body and above all to serve G-d with joy.

Yaacov Deane
  • 14,809
  • 22
  • 64
  • This is very nice! Just a minor nitpick on the last paragraph: in general that's true, but many places can't even have local minyanim nowadays. The online groups where people daven together are very nice, while obviously not replacing an actual minyan. – Heshy Mar 19 '20 at 19:03
  • @Heshy If you want to take this concept to it's fullest, adult perspective, all the prayers of all the Minyanim over the entire earth collect each day in the Holy land, the land of Israel (a minor ascent) and wait for the leader of the generation (the Moshe Rabbeinu that is in each and every generation) to complete his prayers which completes the ascent of all the prayers together. Our prayers ascend with his. And to clarify for you, Moshe Rabbeinu is equated with Aharon HaKohen Gadol and Aharon with Moshe, like is found in many places. This also follows the teaching of the Ari z"l. – Yaacov Deane Mar 19 '20 at 19:13
  • @Heshy And in case it skipped your attention, the Roshei Teivot of Brain (מ״וח), Heart (ל״ב) and Liver (כ״בד) is King (מלך). We reveal G-d's Kingship in the world through our prayers. But that is likely above a 10 year olds comprehension level. – Yaacov Deane Mar 19 '20 at 19:43