The Book of Genesis says that Abraham was from Ur Kasdim. Usually English translations renders it "Ur of the Chaldees/Chaldeans". It is impossible for Kasdim to mean Chaldeans if the Torah was written by Moses since the Chaldeans only came to Mesopotamia around 8th century BCE. And Abraham cannot be Sumerian (Ur was a Sumerian city) since Sumerians were not semetic people. So what was Abraham's ethnicity?
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2Sumer was the name of that area. Maybe Abraham was a part of the group who lived there before Sumer? Also, who says that Abraham was of the same ethnicity as his neighbors; perhaps they were Hamitic and Abraham's family was Semitic? – DonielF Nov 11 '19 at 16:54
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1@DonielF Sumerian civilization (the 1st civilization) started in the 4th millenia BCE while Abraham lived around 1800 BCE, but that's not an issue. As you said his family may be Semitic (maybe Akkadian? ) living in a Sumerian non Semitic city, but he was definitly not Chaldean. – mil Nov 11 '19 at 16:58
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Are you asking how the Torah is reconciled with our modern understanding of history? Because the Torah says that Abraham was from Ur Kasdim, which makes him de-facto Ur Kasdim-ese. – Salmononius2 Nov 11 '19 at 17:05
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@Salmononius2 yes that's what I am asking. – mil Nov 11 '19 at 17:07
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In that case, I think this is a duplicate of https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28441/how-are-pre-creation-4000-bce-human-civilization-and-pre-flood-2300-bce-civili (or one of the myriad related Torah/science contradiction questions). – Salmononius2 Nov 11 '19 at 17:09
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Jewish tradition has Abraham as an "Aramean" (hence his birth name, "Avram = Av Aram (father of the nation of Aram)" – יהושע ק Nov 11 '19 at 17:22
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1Doesn't this beg a definition of "ethnicity"? Are you asking about his geographical label (we talk about Native Americans even though they lived on a continent before it was named "America")? Are you asking about is family culture? – rosends Nov 11 '19 at 17:59
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Why not say the Chaldeans were in Ur, just culturally under Sumaritan influence? – Mordechai Nov 11 '19 at 19:39
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2It occurred to me that Kesed, the forebear of Chaldea, was Abraham’s nephew (Genesis 22), so he couldn’t have been Chaldean. And @Josh Aram was still a Semite (Genesis 10). – DonielF Nov 11 '19 at 19:40
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@Mordechai because as I mentionned in my question, the Chaldeans arrived to Mesopotamia around 8th century BCE, a millenia before Abraham. Therefore it was impossible for Abraham to be a Chaldean. – mil Nov 11 '19 at 20:02
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1How do you know that? – Mordechai Nov 11 '19 at 20:02
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@Mordechai that's a well known historical fact. – mil Nov 11 '19 at 20:05
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Avraham was not originally from Ur Kasdim, according to many commentators he was born in Charan and moved with his father to Ur Kasdim some time after – Dan Weisberg Nov 11 '19 at 22:05
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Also, where does Torah say he was from Ur Kasdim originally? From what I know he only resided there with his father, where does it say he was born there? – Dan Weisberg Nov 11 '19 at 22:09
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- As @rosends wrote, this question would benefit from a definition of one’s ethnicity. 2) “Chaldeans” comes from the Septuagint written around ~250 BCE. Maybe the Greeks translated the Hebrew according to their then current knowledge; i.e. they wrote Chaldeans but meant “the land which was inhabited by the Chaldeans” (i.e. Ur).
– Lee Nov 16 '19 at 20:16 -
Not Hispanic or Latino – Heshy Mar 23 '21 at 21:10
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I think he was Iraqi or Persian. – Shmuel Jun 23 '23 at 23:14
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@Heshy Maybe he was Latino. How do you know? – Shmuel Jun 23 '23 at 23:15
5 Answers
This is two questions:
1) How could the Torah describe the city of Ur as being of the Chaldeans if they didn't exist yet?
The Torah clearly describes a city in which Avraham and his father resided as being called "Ur Kasdim", so either
a) The Torah is using a "borrowed" and contemporary-to-a-future-time name (Chaldeans) in place of some proto-Babylonian people (Sumerians?) - see here for a similar example:
b) There were in fact Chaldeans at the time, and the assumption in the question is mistaken.
2) What was Avraham's ethnicity - and were the inhabitants of Ur Semitic?
Avraham was certainly descended on the male line directly from Shem and then Ever - see the details of his descent at the end of parshas Noach - so definitely Semitic in the basic sense. The inhabitants of Shinar/Bavel/Iraq were likely descended from Cham (10:10 - though it's not conclusive - and I don't know if Ur is the same as ancient Shinar). This doesn't contradict Avraham's being Semitic as:
a) His father was an immigrant from "Semite-land" - possibly Syria/Aram/Charan (see Ramban who proves this from Avraham being Semitic and not a Hamitic Chaldean - like the questioner does)
b) There were always descendants of Shem living in Ur- possibly who had never left there (see 10:11).
Postscript
Some more information on the naming of Ur, and the ancestry of the Kasdim:
I had a look at R' Aryeh Kaplan z"l's Living Torah Chumash (a good source for this kind of thing) and brings the following sources:
1) In a comment on the first mention of Ur Kasdim, Redak writes:
באור כשדים: שהיום נקרא אור כשדים, כי באותו הזמן לא נולד כשד שיקראו בניו כשדים.
That is: The Kasdim/Chaldeans were descended from Avraham's nephew Kesed, and the city was not yet called Ur Kasdim as he wasn't born yet.
2) Josephus and the the apocryphal Book of Jubilees associate Kasdim with Arphachshad - son of Shem.
Jubilees (11:3) writes that Ur son of Kesed (presumably Arpachshad) founded the city around three hundred years before the birth of Avraham. Though this source carries little weight, from both Jewish and academic perspectives, the approach would allow for a Semitic Ur at the time of Avraham.
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Kesed was Avraham’s nephew, so your proposal that the name is anachronistic must be correct. – DonielF Nov 12 '19 at 00:55
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@DonielF Makes sense - though are we sure that Kesed was the ancestor of the Kasdim? – AKA Nov 12 '19 at 22:24
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Because Kesed is quite far down the chain of generations - all the other "progenitors" are further up closer to Noach (like Ashur, Kush, Cana'an), and the implication of the pesukim is that they were the ancestors of civilization. Avraham's family just seems to be a bunch of ordinary people. – AKA Nov 12 '19 at 22:27
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What about Edom, Moav, Amon, Yishmael, Midyan, etc.? Plenty of nations come from Avraham’s family. – DonielF Nov 12 '19 at 22:28
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@DonielF Added a postscript referencing some sources about the Kasdim - slightly relevant to the main answer. – AKA Nov 16 '19 at 18:42
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It could be argued that Ur Kasdim doesn't refer to Ur of the Chaldeans, but rather that the root KSD had a particular meaning in ancient semitic languages (the name "Kesed", Avraham's nephew, didn't come from nowhere.) For example, perhaps Kesed meant "star". Then Ur Kasdim would mean "light of the stars". – Derdeer Mar 23 '21 at 18:41
According to Genesis 14:13, Abraham was a Hebrew (’ivri).
Radak ad loc. explains this as a reference to Abraham’s ancestor Eber.
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Good answer. What about "my ancestor was a wandering Aramean", though? – יהושע ק Nov 11 '19 at 18:25
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"Lavan the Arameanian tried to destroy my forefather" (Onkolos, Rashi, Hagada). And that's his nationality, not ethnicity. – Mordechai Nov 11 '19 at 19:24
Avraham was a Hebrew. The Torah calls him a Hebrew (Breishis 14:13) and he was a descendent of Eber who founded the Hebrew nation and language. He was born from the Hebrew people in Ur Kasdim and professed beleif in G-d at the age of 3 according to midrash tanchuma.
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Additionally, we might add that Abraham discovered G-d. The Midrash about Abraham breaking his father's idols is not in the Bible. – Turk Hill Mar 23 '21 at 17:50
Scholar feel that the term Chaldees is anachronistic because the Chaldeans did not exist in the days of the patriarchs. It is possible that the term Chaldeans means "Abraham came from where the modern Chaldeans now live" or, it is possible that there was an early group of people who called themselves Chaldeans. Whatever the case, the Bible says that Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees.
Regarding your second question, Shem was still alive during much of Abraham's lifetime. In fact, some commentaries feel that Shem was Melchizedek. In any case, Abraham was a descendant of Shem, he was a semite. But Abraham was not the first Jew because Judaism did not yet exist.
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Rabbi Uri Sherqi suggests that Terah was originally from כנען, which would make it likely that Abraham was born there and/or raised with a Canaanite ethnicity. Why else would they specifically seek to go there?
Alternatively, Abraham is a Shemite as is written explicitly in the Torah. This question could benefit from a precise definition for “ethnicity”.
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@mil The fact that Avraham was born in and/or raised with a Canaanite ethnicity does not mean he is of Canaanite lineage. Google “define ethnicity” to see the nuances between ethnicity and race/lineage. Hence the call for clarification at the end of my answer. – Lee Nov 23 '19 at 18:33