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In a previous question, we established the lack of kshatriyas and vaishyas in today's day and age. Basically, the only dwijAs to exist today are the sath BramhanAs. For reference, one can gloss over this question here:

Definition and ritualistc rights of vrAtyas in the present day

The purAnas and other literature confirms that this is a natural order of the Kali Yuga, as evidenced below:

a) the Agni PurAna in Chapter 16, predicts the following regarding Kalki: "He would[after killing the immoral, fake kings, etc]establish moral law in four-fold varṇas in the suitable manner."

b) The BhAgavata PurAna goes further to describe: "When the end of Kaliyuga is near, the Kshatriyas will be the thorns in the flesh of the world. They will not protect others." and that "during the final stages of Kaliyuga, there will be no Brahmins, Kshatriyas or Vaishyas left. At the end of Kaliyuga the world will have only one varna"

c) Meanwhile, the dharma sAstras, such as Parasara describe the duties (and therefore existence) of Kshatriyas and Vaisyas: https://ia902207.us.archive.org/28/items/ParasharaSmriti/SriParasharaSmrithiPdf.pdf

d) Medieval AchAryas such as HH Sri Vedanta Desika Swami and HH Raghavendra Swami encourage the following of jAthi dharma

       Ref. from Vedanta Desika's Teachings: "A prapanna must only live in a land 
       where varnAshrama is followed."
   Ref. from the "Final Speech of Raghavendra Swami": "Right living is performing 
   one’s ordained duties according to one’s station in life"

Now, my questions are:

  1. Why would the purAnas and dharma sAstras still speak of "duties of kshatriyas and vaishyas" and "evil kings" when they knew that just within 5000 years of the 400k years, we would no longer have true seminal Kshatriyas/Vaisyas? Perhaps this means that the fallen dwijAs will undergo vrAtyastOma or rituals like HiranyarbhA to reinstate their dwijatva?

  2. Could the rishis just have been providing ideal rules to be followed for the beginning of kali yuga, even though they knew that no one (Except for brAmhanas) would be able to follow it due to varnasAnkarya? Or could it be that the current ruling and business communities will all in the future perform vrAtyastoma to re-esablish the chaturvarna again?

  3. Why were our AchAryas promoting living in a perfect varnAshrama society when they themselves were unable to? Even Sri Vedanta Desika came under the parampara of Sri Ramanuja, who himself "re-converted" the Jain King Hoysala Bitti Deva as the Sri Vaishnava henceforth known as Vishnuvardhana (of whom some of the current Razus and Rajula Balija trace descent from). Bitti Deva's paternal lineage had been Jain from the time of his grandfather, as evidenced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinayaditya_(Hoysala_dynasty).

  4. It is well documented that once the upanayanAdhi samskAras have been withheld for at least three generations, the lineage can no longer claim dwijatva again. But, Vishnuvardhana's descendants continue to observe the upanayana. As discussed in the previous question above, Kamalakarabhatta ruled that vrAtyas could be rechristened to their ancestral varna, even after three generations. So, RamanujAcharya Himself seems to have allowed sUdrAs (i.e., fallen kshatriyAs) to be kings or have had the knowledge to perform vrAtyastOma on fallen dwija jAthis. In theory, could this be done to today's fallen bramhanEytara dwijAs (i.e., rAzus, rAjputs, kOmatis, Kshatriya Bannajiga Rajula, marAthas, baniyAs, etc? Who would authorize this?

Note: I mean no offense to anyone. This question is purely to understand the implications of sAstra in today's context and rituals; examples with references were provided to better frame the question.

May the Vedic Dharma and everyone in BhAratha flourish

Krishna
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  • Hoping the following could weigh in on this question: @mar – Krishna Oct 05 '23 at 23:47
  • @Ikshvaku , and – Krishna Oct 05 '23 at 23:47
  • @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Krishna Oct 05 '23 at 23:47
  • @KeshavSrinivasan – Krishna Oct 05 '23 at 23:47
  • if someone asks "how many red lights can i skip when driving per day - 2 or 3 ?". the law already says 0. but he continues to say "the law is outdated because it was written long ago and does not take into account current traffic". that's the state of people today - they look if shastras allow whatever nonsense they do, but when they don't find it, they blame shastras as outdated. only Rishis have power to change laws in shastras - like ani mandavya made the juvenile-no-punishment law. politicians can only change constitution laws - which are short sighted, and for degraded people. – ram Oct 07 '23 at 04:19
  • as swami vivekananda rightly put - let us not bring down the ideal just because we are unable to live up to it. shastras already say - 'do gayatri japa, don't travel overseas' etc. many of which we (myself included) have transgressed. now, instead of properly accepting that we will have to face punishment for all such mistakes, we try to say 'shastras did not know about brain drain so they made rule about not living abroad, they didn't know about mughal invasions so they made rule that kshatriyas alone can rule' etc. shastras are tri-kala-jnani. if we follow, we benefit, if not we suffer. – ram Oct 07 '23 at 04:23
  • just like laws don't make any rule about whether skipping 2 red lights or 3 or 5 or 7 is accepted - they just let people skip and get hit/die and learn by that. similarly, shastras don't make many rules about sudras getting their dwija-tvam back after 5 generations or 7 etc. they just let them do whatever and face consequences of it - that's how bhagavan enforces. shastras are simply a compilation of 1000s of warnings to avoid pitfalls. if we ignore warnings, it is our own peril. but acharyas will never degrade shastras to fit current day. cos they know if they give inch, we will take mile. – ram Oct 07 '23 at 04:25
  • @mar thank you for the answer. I do understand this, I’m just trying to understand why the purAnAs and dharma sAstrAs talk about Kshatriyas and vaishyas at the end of KalI Yuga when we have none of them today. Note that I believe in sanathana dharma (and proper birth based varnashrama) so these verses have been bugging me. Shouldn’t the purAnAs/vEda vyAsA (who is an amsA of BhagavAn) know the future? – Krishna Oct 09 '23 at 21:59
  • Not sure how we are to suddenly gain back any Kshatriyas or Vaisyas if we have 395k years of KalI Yuga to go. In order to be an “evil” Kshatriya, one needs to be a pure Kshatriya (by birth), just like AshwathAma could not have been an evil brahmin if he was not born to seminally pure brAmhanAs. There are just no such pure non-sAnkarya Kshatriyas or vaisyA lineages per sAstric codes (no matter how much they may deny it) for “evil kshatriyAs” to pop up from. Could this just be symbolism? – Krishna Oct 09 '23 at 22:02
  • @mar sorry if there are too many questions. But also- regarding your last comment about "any rule about whether skipping 2 red lights...", are you implying that the sAstrAs are quiet about the fallen dwijAs reclaiming their dwijatvA, but that it is up to them to do so (Ref: Kamalakara Bhatta's Opinion)? Or are you saying that the right thing to do is for them to just remain sudrAs? – Krishna Oct 09 '23 at 22:43

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