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There is lot of confusion regarding Anulom marriage . Some say it is allowed and varna of the child is Varna of the father. Some say it is not allowed. In present world , such child are outcasted from the varna. I think even manusmriti tells us the same.

Some examples of anulom marriage -

Vedvyas -born from Nishad mother but he is considered as Brahmin. I know satyavati is by blood Kshatriya but still she was lawfully adopted , she will be considered as Nishad.

Parshuram born from Kshatriya woman , considered as Brahmin.

Jamadagni (Parshuram Father) - Born from Kshatriya woman, considered as Brahmin

Raavana and Vibhishan- born from Rakshi woman (i.e. unvedic, non-Hindu) , considered as Brahmin

Although not sure but I think the child born from Anulom marriage will not be pure but he or she can still marry other people of his father's varna and in few generation the fault due to anulom marriage can be rectified.

river
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  • we cannot apply avatara yardstick to normal humans. satyavati was born to a kshatriya father and an apsara-turned-fish mother. how can a woman born from a fish be considered a woman by today's standards ? muni richeeka created 2 charus (payas/kheer), upon switching which his wife gave birth to jamadagni (parashuram's father), and his mother-in-law gave birth to kaushika (turned vishvamitra). how can a man born from a payas be considered a man by today's standards ? – ram Jan 23 '22 at 20:20
  • @mar Both Satyavati and Jamadgni are humans . Rishis and devtas can give birth to people by using many methods. But still the born child will be considered as normal humans. Just like just because someone is born from caesarean , doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered as human. Rishis and devtas know very advanced methods. – river Jan 23 '22 at 20:31
  • why don't you consider rishis and devatas also as humans? – ram Jan 23 '22 at 21:08
  • @mar rishis are humans. Devtas are not. – river Jan 23 '22 at 21:09
  • why don't you consider Devtas as humans ? – ram Jan 23 '22 at 22:08
  • @mar I will try to give my view as to why Devatas are not humans. Divinity is attributed to a being based on their awareness of their existence from the all encompassing truth that is parabrahma. Beasts have least awareness of this existential truth followed by humans then devatas upwards to trimurthis. I tried to keep it simple but can elaborate a bit more if you are not satisfied. – Tej Jan 24 '22 at 02:04
  • @Tej - u don't understand my line of questioning. it will eventually lead to river accepting that if devtas are not humans, then those avatars are also not humans. – ram Jan 24 '22 at 04:36
  • @mar Whar about Raavan , Vibhishan , they were born from Rakshi woman , still they are considered as Brahmin. – river Jan 26 '22 at 10:00
  • We should restrict all questions on caste. Giving too much weight on caste means the end of Hinduism. Kindly read what our great saints like Sant Kabir, Swami Tulsidas, Swami Vivekanand have said on caste. Stop following Manu smriti or mbh to emphasize on caste if you love Hinduism. – Lokesh Jan 26 '22 at 11:51
  • @Lokesh - that is neo-vedantic view. uniformity is not same as unity. all religions have different denominations - catholic/protestant, shia/sunni. if not caste, they will be divided on something else like race or status. you have to follow your own varna dharma according to shastras if you want moksha. – ram Jan 26 '22 at 23:02
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    @river - that's a different question. all jatis have 4 varnas. there are brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya & shudra in asuras, in rakshasas, in devas, in humans etc. i'm asking why you consider devatas as different from humans ? is it because they have super-natural abilities ? – ram Jan 26 '22 at 23:03
  • @mar I think devtas are immortal. – river Feb 01 '22 at 11:52
  • @river - nobody is immortal. devatas just have really long lives. and humans can also get those abilities (for e.g. chiranjeevis) - does that mean chiranjeevis are humans or devatas ? – ram Feb 01 '22 at 23:46
  • @mar Which deva or devi has died ? Cheeranjivis have long lives , not immortal. Devtas drank amrit which came out in samudra manthan and became immortal. – river Feb 02 '22 at 02:59
  • @river - devas have to take birth back on earth after their punya runs out. nobody lives FOREVER – ram Feb 04 '22 at 01:11
  • @mar If they take birth then they are not devas . Devas like - Indra , Varun , Vayu, Yama, Agni etc can't take birth . How can they take birth ? It is technically impossible. – river Feb 04 '22 at 01:25
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    @river - ksheene punye martya lokam vishanti (Bhagavad Gita). Svarg & Narak & Bhumi - all are individually temporary. The cycle of samsara between these 3 is eternal UNTIL one gets Moksha. Devas cannot take birth when they are Devas. But once their position of rule is complete, they have to. For e.g. the period of rule if Indra post is 1 Manvantara (or 14 Chatur Yugas), after that a new Jiva takes the post of Indra. e.g. Mahabali is next Indra after current Indra's rule is over. – ram Feb 06 '22 at 02:29

2 Answers2

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"There is lot of confusion regarding Anulom marriage . Some say it is allowed and varna of the child is Varna of the father"

The varna of the child remains as of father if

  1. father first marry in his own varna (else father himself lost his varna) ["Prince Nabhag (son of King Dishta) married a girl from vaisya family without first marrying within his own kshatriya varna. Thus he was declared a vaisya." ~ Can a Kshatriya man marry Vaishya woman?]
  2. and the mother is from the same or immediate next below varna

i.e.

  • son of Brahmana man and Brahmana or Kshatriya woman -> Brahmana
  • son of Kshatriya man and Kshatriya or Vaisya woman -> Kshatriya
  • son of Vaisya man and Vaisya or Sudra woman -> Vaisya
  • son of Sudra man and Sudra woman -> Sudra

"Bhishma said, 'In the beginning, the Lord of all creatures created the four orders and laid down their respective acts or duties, for the sake of sacrifice.

The Brahmana may take four wives, one from each of the four orders. In two of them (viz., the wife taken from his own order and that taken from the one next below), he takes birth himself (the children begotten upon them being regarded as invested with the same status as his own). Those sons, however, that are begotten by him on the two spouses that belong to the next two orders (viz., Vaisya and Sudra), are inferior, their status being determined not by that of their father but by that of their mothers. The son that is begotten by a Brahmana upon a Sudra wife is called Parasara, implying one born of a corpse, for the Sudra woman's body is as inauspicious as a corpse. He should serve the persons of his (father's) race. Indeed, it is not proper for him to give up the duty of service that has been laid down for him. Adopting all means in his power, he should uphold the burden of his family. Even if he happens to be elder in age, he should still dutifully serve the other children of his father who may be younger to him in years, and bestow upon them whatever he may succeed in earning.

A Kshatriya may take three wives. In two of them (viz., the one taken from his own order and the other that is taken from the order immediately below), he takes birth himself (so that those children are invested with the status of his own order). His third wife being of the Sudra order is regarded as very inferior. The son that he begets upon her comes to be called as an Ugra.

The Vaisya may take two spouses. In both of them (viz., the one taken from his own order, and the other from the lowest of the four pure orders), he takes birth himself (so that those children become invested with the status of his own order).

The Sudra can take only one wife, viz., she that is taken from his own order. The son begotten by him upon her becomes a Sudra. ~Mahabharata: Anusasana Parva


"What will be the Varna of a child born from a Brahmin man and Shudra woman?"

As per above Mahabharata text, the son that is begotten by a Brahmana upon a Sudra wife is called Parasara, his duties are to serve his father's race.

YDS
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  • But How were Parshuram , Jamadagi brahmins ? Their father married only Kshatriya woman . Again how is Ved Vyas brahmin ? How is Raavan Brahmin ? Rishi Bhardwaj too married only a Kshatriya woman named Susheela . Agastya too married a Kshatriya woman only. Jaratkaru too married a non-Brahmin. – river Jan 27 '22 at 05:26
  • I think son of a brahmin man with both brahmin woman and kshatriya woman should be bramin regardless of the fact if he first married a brahmin woman or not. It is what is mentioned in Mbh. In Mbh text that you quoted nowhere it is written that Brahmin first need to take a wife from his own order. – river Jan 27 '22 at 05:32
  • leave these rishis they had power of tapsya.. they could attain the diff varana like Vishwamitra attained brahminhood though he was a king earlier...Shukracharya gave boon to Yayati who indeed did pratiloma marriage but still his lineage was not outcast/mixed-cast.. - a related post https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29292/12304..also in the very beginning it was difficult to follow such rules as there was not enough population.. – YDS Jan 27 '22 at 06:34
  • Yadavs were considered as different caste . They married only among themselves , other kshatriyas didn't give their daughter to Yadavs. – river Jan 27 '22 at 08:30
  • "They married only among themselves , other kshatriyas didn't give their daughter to Yadavs" -- this is baseless claim.... during MBH time itself Krishna or his family member were married to princess of almost all kingdoms (including Kaurvas).. – YDS Jan 27 '22 at 08:52
  • Which Kshatriya girl did Krishna marry ? Krishna son Samba married Duryodhan daughter by abduction to which Duryodhan opposed as it was pratilom vivah. – river Jan 27 '22 at 09:00
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Such a child is called a Nishadha in the scriptures. See the following verses from Manu Smriti:

10.6. Sons, begotten by twice-born man on wives of the next lower castes, they declare to be similar (to their fathers, but) blamed on account of the fault (inherent) in their mothers.

10.7. Such is the eternal law concerning (children) born of wives one degree lower (than their husbands); know (that) the following rule (is applicable) to those born of women two or three degrees lower.

10.8. From a Brahmana a with the daughter of a Vaisya is born (a son) called an Ambashtha, with the daughter of a sudra a Nishada, who is also called Parasava

Such children are called base borns (Apasada) and treated pretty much like outcastes.

10.10. Children of a Brahmana by (women of) the three (lower) castes, of a Kshatriya by (wives of) the two (lower) castes, and of a Vaisya by (a wife of) the one caste (below him) are all six called base-born (apasada).


Occupation prescribed for the Nishadas:


10.48. Killing fish to Nishadas; carpenters’ work to the Ayogava; to Medas, Andhras, Kunkus, and Madgus, the slaughter of wild animals;

So, although their father is a Brahmin they themselves don't enjoy the status of a Brahmin.

Rickross
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  • Isn't Parshuram and Ved Vyas considered as Brahmin . Ved Vyas even married a Brahmini woman.

    Also here it is written that Nishad is the son of Shudra man and Kshatriya woman (i.e pratlom marriage)

    https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/47981/23709

    – river Jan 24 '22 at 06:33
  • @river I don't know what will be the Varna of Ved Vyasa but he is also an avatara. 10.8 clearly says that such a child belongs to the Nishada caste. – Rickross Jan 24 '22 at 06:44
  • Also I think these rules mentioned in Manu Smriti are only for humans and they don't apply to the cases where births take place super naturally @river – Rickross Jan 24 '22 at 06:56
  • But Mbh should be considered as more authentic than Manusmriti. And in Mbh it is written that Nishad is the son of Shudra man and Kshatriya woman. https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/47973/what-is-the-dharma-of-outcaste-people/47981#47981 – river Jan 24 '22 at 07:09
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    How is Mahabharat more authentic? Manu is the ultimate authority as far as laying down laws of Dharma is concerned. Smritis anyway have more authority than Puranas/itihasas. @river – Rickross Jan 24 '22 at 07:15
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    Mbh is considerd as heavier in knowledge than even Vedas. Mbh is the ultimate book written by Ved Vyas. Manusmriti was edited by people later multiple times according to the situation of world and society as it was law book. Also it is illogical to make a s son of a brahmin man to indulge in catching and killing fish. The son learns skills from his father , how can a brahmin man teach his son art of catching killing fish ?It doesn't make any sense to me. – river Jan 24 '22 at 07:20
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    Ok fine. Mahabharat is more authoritative than even Vedas now .. ok go ahead. I have nothing more to say. You are free to believe anything @river – Rickross Jan 24 '22 at 07:22
  • https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/q/38600/23709 – river Jan 24 '22 at 07:24
  • Mbh obviously can't be considered as more authentic than vedas . I by mistake said that . But the thing is Vedas are written in Vedic Sanskrit which has not been deciphered fully yet. Plus Vedas should be read only by a Guru . So, Vedas are not for common people as Vedic gurus no longer exist. So, for normal people Puranas and Ithihas will be considered as more authentic. – river Jan 24 '22 at 07:36
  • @river you are right mbh is far greater than vedas.. and upanishad. because it encompass all dharma and adharma and vicharaa.. suppose IVF scenario now.. Gandhari did similar and her son is still accepted as kashtriya.. IVF is legal in mbh time sodo now.. Veda vyasa is god himself he become a 10yr old boy right after birth means he is not normal human boy.. God came to them to honor the tapasya done by Sage Parasara and Satyavati separately.. so he appeared to them as being born to them.. – Prasanna R Jan 24 '22 at 07:41
  • @river Guna is different and caste can be entierly different sage jamadagni born with kashtriya guna to brahmin father.. – Prasanna R Jan 24 '22 at 07:42
  • @PrasannaR Jamadagni also had Kshatriya mother. – river Jan 24 '22 at 07:43
  • Then how Astika, son of Jaratkaru (the Brahmin sage) & Jaratkaru (Vasuki's sister) is considered Brahmin ? The same question also applies for Jamadagni (born of Aurva's descendent Richika & Vishvamitra's sister Satyavati) & progeny of Agastya (who married the Kshatriya maiden Lopamudra). – অনু Jan 24 '22 at 13:25
  • @AnubrataBit True , there are many examples of Anulom marriage and their children were counted in Brahmin Varna like - Raavan , Vibhisan , both were considered as Brahmin. Raavan was considered as Brahmin even though his mother was Rakshai (i.e unvedic , non-Hindu) . – river Jan 26 '22 at 10:04