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It's gonna be a long question so please bear with me and read this question till the end.

Its kind of common (though unnecessary and absurd) to have arguments between different sects like Shaivas, Vaishnavas and Shaktas about who is supreme and all though they are one only but still I can understand their point of view but recently I have seen arguments between vaishnavas themselves in different public forums saying lord vishnu is greater than lord Krishna and vice versa which is strange and it's also same for maa Lakshmi, maa rukmani and maa radha.

I have grown up watching mythological tv serials like vishnupurana, jai shree krishna, repeat telecasts of ramayana, mahabharata, etc, and from childhood only I have always believed that lord Krishna is the 8th avatar of lord vishnu and maa rukmani is the avatar of maa Lakshmi. We believe that maa radha is a devotee of lord Krishna like other gopis. We also have this saying "Among all aradhika(devotees), devi radhika is the foremost (Shrestha) aradhika." Even lord Hanuman said that he saw mata sita in mata rukmani. In this question you can see that lord Krishna and Arjuna went to meet lord vishnu and in this question you can see nara, narayana, krishna, hari are 4 brothers and sons of dharmaraj (like lord rama, lakshmana, bharata and shatrugana) where nara took birth as arjuna, narayana took birth as krishna, hari went to vaikuntha and krishna went to goloka. So it became more complicated plus especially the gauriya Vaishnavism says that it's lord Krishna who is the avatari and source of lord vishnu and mata radha source of mata lakshmi and some say mata lakshmi's full avatar is maa radha. Purunas like vishnu purana say lord vishnu is the source of lord Krishna but Puranas like Brahma vaivarta purana says it's the other way around. And same for mata lakshmi, mata rukmani and mata radha. So it's so confusing.

Now I have 3 sources one is saying lord vishnu is the source of lord Krishna, other one is saying it's lord Krishna who is the supreme and another one is saying that they are all brothers and different gods only.

So my question is for both lord vishnu-lord krishna and maa lakshmu-maa rukmani-maa radha.

Who is really whose Avatar and why.?

I hope this question doesn't offend anyone in any way...

Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu
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    Vishnu = Krishna = Rama (as far as almost everyone except ISKCON is concerned). And that too only because of their intense Krishna-Guna Bhakti. One must not confuse a subjective devotion to be an intellectual dictat. They say Krishna is supreme because he displayed the qualities most attractive to bhaktas. It's like a chaste wife saying "Shyam, the husband, is the supreme. Even better than Shyam the father or Shyam the son" - even though all 3 refer to the same person. – ram Mar 21 '21 at 04:01
  • But you will get confuse sometime though and what about nara narayan hari krishna.? – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 04:05
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    All those are different names for same Paramatma. – ram Mar 21 '21 at 04:09
  • That to I also know even Brahma, vishnu, mahesh, gauri, lakshmi, saraswati, Kartikeya, ganesha, indra, etc are also the different names of the same parmatma. Which I have said in the starting of my question only but my question was different. Anyways man it's nice to talk to you. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 04:18
  • I actually meant only the names you posted in the comment as names for Paramatma. Different sects have different views about which names are synonyms and which are actually different beings. – ram Mar 21 '21 at 04:26
  • Forget about sects according to Vedas all the names of univers are of parambramhas only even both yours and mine also. So for me all gods are a form of parambramha. Hell even we are also we just don't know or realise it because of illusion or maya. So yeah I guess it's about beliefs only. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 04:33
  • It's a very pertinent question. One may look at it either via the way, 1). that it's the same Brahman{who cannot be limited by ANY particular form or name (proper noun) or ideology} which manifests into myriad forms. Now, further when the factor of maya (Cosmic illusion) which pervades the material world, veils us, the material objects of creation, then the second viewpoints arise., 2). Even though it's the same reality (nameless and attributeless), we under maya's influence experience it as completely different, as per our samskaras, gunas and general upbringing. – Vivikta Mar 21 '21 at 05:14
  • This case of difference arising in viewpoints of Vishnu and Krishna being different has to do more with the second (2) viewpoint, further aggravated by the fact, that several sectarian literature exists, with stories meant in the form of ninda-stuti that's aimed to glorify the deity of the sect, by comparing it with others. Then of course, there can NEVER be one uniform way a sanskrit verse can be interpreted because each word allows several meanings and thus several "Valid" viewpoints. – Vivikta Mar 21 '21 at 05:19
  • Yeah that's also true sanskar, attributes, nature, parvarish, upbringing, views, beliefs, upbringing etc really matters and that's what's make a person's own personality and can change him for both good or bad depending upon them. Some people can be blind with maya and sarcasm. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 07:17
  • Bdw you can give this also as an answer. It looks like a decent answer to me without hurting sentiments of anyone. Ur choice man. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 07:29
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    Vishnu being an avatar of Krishna isn't just held by new groups such as ISKCON: nimbArka, vallabha and other gaudiyas also hold to it, and have done so for well over 500 years. @mar We need to stop writing as if advaita is the only hindu view. –  Mar 21 '21 at 07:49
  • @Savdy, I'd give this as the answer, but I'll have to support it with scriptural references too, that's a bit of a time consuming process, :P – Vivikta Mar 21 '21 at 07:50
  • @vivikta it's your thought which can also be an answer if put with right words plus it's also not harming anyone's sentiments as far as I know. Valid Thought can also be an answer. Rest is upto you man. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 07:57
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    We need to stop quarelling among ourself. It's ok man, no-one is saying or writing Advaita as the only hindu view everyone knows that Dvaita is also the part of hinduism. And no-one is denying it. (Edit : I didn't noticed that it was addressed to someone still it's ok man.)././. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 21 '21 at 08:17
  • @Vedavedya - ok, ISKCON is follows prabhupada's gaudiya philosophy, so they're covered under that. I didn't know nimbarka & vallabhas also followed same. – ram Mar 21 '21 at 15:27
  • Does this answer your question? Is Krishna the source of Vishnu or other way round? – YDS Mar 22 '21 at 05:53
  • @YDS no as I have asked 2 questions here, the the one was about mata radha-rukmani-lakshmi so make it more clear I have also edited the tagline of question itself, and there is no mention of the sons of Dharma who were nara, narayana, hari and krushna in that question, plus that question is closed so how was I supposed to see that.? But now that I have seen it it's still not answering my full question only in bits and pieces. So no it's not answering my question. I think u have voted to close my question anyways still it's ok. Just read my full question. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 22 '21 at 09:08
  • *Instead of reading it half, than compare my question with that question I have even written in my question to read it till the end. I am not denying thhat a part is similar but not the whole question itself. That's like a progeny of my own question plus it is closed. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 22 '21 at 09:13
  • Have a good day ahead. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Mar 22 '21 at 09:14
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    Does this answer your question? Is Vishnu the incarnation of Krishna or the other way around, according to the Geetha? – Vivikta Jun 10 '21 at 04:29
  • @Vivikta nope before reporting n downvotingatleast read the whole damn question yar. My question also includes rukmani-radha-lajshmi, nar, narayan, hari, krishna. Huh. ‍♂️‍♂️‍♂️. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Jun 10 '21 at 04:38
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    I haven't downvoted here. In fact, your question does not have any "downvote". There's just one Upvote. No overall Negative Vote. Please stop giving false allegations. This is non-conducive to the Code of Conduct in HSE – Vivikta Jun 10 '21 at 04:40
  • Furthermore, When someone asks question on Vishnu & Krishna's theology, it's apriori given that Lakshmi and Radha are included since they're the *Shaktis of them. IMO, it's kind of duplicate. but don't worry, only when the other comunity members feel the same (atleast 5 members), then only your question will be closed. It's still a democracy here, not tyrrany, dear Savdy. :)) – Vivikta Jun 10 '21 at 04:43
  • Ok may be not But you have definitely reported it for sure. I think these allegations are correct atleast. I have edited my question. Without reading full thing reporting it also is non-conductive to the Code of Conduct in HSE. Anyways whatever let's just leave it. Bye. – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Jun 10 '21 at 04:44
  • Dear vivikta it's not necessary to include lakshmi or rukmani or radha. Other questions doesn't involve them. Imo it's kind of childish behaviour n ur behaviour is for me a duplicate of yds. I don't care about it being closed or what other people think. I m just here to learn things that I don't know that's why ask questions. But Yeah offcourse it doesn't feel good to be downvoted or reported but it's ok. N u r right it's still a democracy here n tyrrany or dictatorship so this are within expectation. So huh, um don't worry chill it's ok. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Jun 10 '21 at 04:53
  • Furthermore, when someone particularly report or downvote any theology or answer or post, etc. It's apriori given they have presumably read the whole thing not just the cover of the book. Goodbye. Tc. Cya. Bye. . – Sri Shiva Charañam Dāsa Vishñu Jun 10 '21 at 05:21

1 Answers1

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Vaishnavism has various sub sects. Like.

  1. Gaudiyas who believes Krishna as Supreme.

S.B. 1.3.28.

एते चांशकला: पुंस: कृष्णस्तु भगवान् स्वयम् । इन्द्रारिव्याकुलं लोकं मृडयन्ति युगे युगे ॥

All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

  1. Ramanandis Who believes Rama as Supreme.

~hanumat samhita.

बहवोवतारश्च सकला अंशविभुतयः। रामो परात्पर साक्षात् भगवान् परमेश्वरः।।

There had been so many ansha, kala, vibhuti avtars but Shri Ram is the only supreme among all , himself bhagwan and parmeshwar.

  1. Dvaita of Madhava believes in Dualism abd the Supremacy of Vishnu.

Hari Sarvothama! Vayu Jeevothama!

Hari is best amongst the Gods and Vayu is best amongst the Jeevas.

  1. Vishista Advaita of Ramanuja also believes the supremacy of Vishnu but with slight Non-dual view and also the Sharanagati or total surrender to Lord Vishnu excluding all others.

And so on. Therefore the variation is because of the belief system and different point of views amongst the various sub sects schools.

  • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review – অনু Feb 11 '23 at 14:28
  • But it does actually it is due to different minor sampradayas inside vaishnava that this happens as i have written in my answer and i think asker agrees with me here without asking. Yes scriptures also shows different sources of vishnu avatars like rama, krishna, etc. There is no one and perfect answer for this question that is going to satisfy everyone. You providing suggestion is thik but it is not answering anything but confusing asker more i think like that. Rest what Bhagawan Sanatani wants Om Namah Śhivaya. Wish you an advance Maha Shivaratri Jai Bharat Mata. It is thik once who feel it. –  Feb 12 '23 at 05:05