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Please don't get offended

The law of karma is like cause and effect. So what ever we do we will get it Consequences(good or bad).

So can this justify crime(rape/murder) because the victim did something in past life or in this life that lead him/her to be the victim of crime(rape/murder).

Pradip Gangopadhyay
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Dark Knight
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  • Hello! This is off-topic on this site. You can read here for more info: https://hinduism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1718/93 – Mr_Green Jan 19 '21 at 08:08
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    @Mr_Green my question iz based on justification and not on legal terms – Dark Knight Jan 19 '21 at 08:22
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    I am sure it will boil down to the same. Like the answers will say: yes it is justifiable, no, or maybe. Whatever the point, we don't want to say more than just big NO. Try editing your post, a way around, to get the answer. Currently, this is off-topic. – Mr_Green Jan 19 '21 at 08:28
  • @Mr_Green - this question should NOT be closed. It has a simple and valid answer in scriptures that says it is not justified. I get that your idea is to not promote illegal activities. That depends only on whether answers promote it. The question itself is not. By closing it, you're denying people with similar genuine questions a solid counter to the anti-karma-theory atheists. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 09:18
  • "It has a simple and valid answer in scriptures" - @ram this is your opinion. I don't want to keep it for other possible answers, in other perspectives. This all has been discussed already in that meta post. Please feel free to share there if you still disagree with this. – Mr_Green Jan 19 '21 at 10:16
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    I’m voting to close this question because we do not endorse the justification of crime (which is legal issue) with any of the religious law system. – Pandya Jan 19 '21 at 15:18
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    @DarkKnight if your question is about understanding law of karma then I suggest to frame a general question (e.g good/bad deeds) instead of involving any specific scenario which can have connection with conditional law of country. – Pandya Jan 19 '21 at 15:23
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    @Pandya - do you guys understand the difference/nuance between justification and deserving ? It is justified from victim's perspective, but not from the perpetrator's perspective. In other words, the victim deserved it, but the perpetrator does not deserve to do it. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:42
  • @ram stop making such half comments which are clearly misunderstood. Or literally trying to make sense out of it. Either way, stop it. – Mr_Green Jan 19 '21 at 17:00
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    @Mr_Green - i have a feeling you do not understand the nuance here. Or the word 'justified' brings up lot of emotions. The only perfect system of justice that exists is one where everyone gets what they deserve, and everyone gets only what they deserve. If a person refuses to help a rape victim, by misunderstanding the above 'justification', that is also Adharma, and in future, he will get what he deserves too (none will help him when he is a victim) – ram Jan 19 '21 at 19:00
  • @ram ping me on main chatroom whenever you can. – Mr_Green Jan 19 '21 at 19:16
  • @ram FYI, https://hinduism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2097/93 – Mr_Green Jan 20 '21 at 10:04
  • @Mr_Green FYI, https://hinduism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1074 ("I'd finish by saying that its the internet - and what you're asking is unenforceable. I try to give answers in good faith but it isn't necessarily what I believe in - just what I think is the best answer, referencing what seems appropriate to the question asked.") – Say No To Censorship Jan 20 '21 at 16:19

1 Answers1

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Rape is never justified regardless of the past history of the victim.

The fruit of action is from Him, this being the logical position

Brahma Sutra III.ii.38

Only Ishvara distributes the fruits of Karma. Ishvara has not given any Jiva the right to claim that a victim deserved being raped.

Moreover, is it even correct to claim that the victim was raped because of past deed? The answer is no. There are two factors that affect the life of a Jiva. The first factor is past karma and the second factor is suffering inevitable in life called tapatraya regardless of one's karma.

What is Tapatraya?

Adhibhautika, adhidaivika and adhyatmika are known as Tapatraya.

The three words respectively mean: pertaining to (a) the bhuta or living beings; (b) the daiva or fate, unseen forces and gods; (c) the body (and the mind).

Sorrow and suffering (duhkha, tapa) are inevitable in life. In fact, they are a part of life. A knowledge of their origin, causes and even categorisation helps one to minimise their effect if not eradicate them. The Hindu religious works usually call them 'tapatraya', 'the three miseries'. They are: adhyatmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika.

The adhyatmika duhkha or tapa is that which is caused by bodily suffering and mental anguish. Hereditary diseases like leprosy, disabilities like blindness or lameness and diseases caused by the violation of the rules of health and sanitation are classed under this. The mental agony caused by worries and anxieties, attachment and aversion, also comes under this group.

The adhidaivika duhkha or tapa is that which is caused by daiva. The word daiva includes the power of time, nature and the unseen hand of fate. Diseases caused by the changing seasons, misery caused by the elemental forces like floods and fire, suffering caused by black magic or gods who are displeased, natural tribulations due to hunger, thirst and old-age belong to this group.

The adhibhautika duhkha or tapa is that which is caused by other bhutas or living beings, like wild animals, snakes or enemies.

Some of these, like hereditary diseases or physical disabilities cannot be got rid of. Hence they must be endured. Some like the diseases caused by change of seasons or the machinations of enemies can be countered by taking appropriate precautions. However, raising the mind to the level of the spirit, thus transcending the limitations imposed by the body-mind complex, is the best solution to offset the effects of tapatraya.

A Concise Encyclopedia of Hinduism by Swami Harshananda

What does this mean? Isn't Karma the only thing that governs life?

It means that if you consider life as a theater then you also have to consider the effect of the stage in which life is lived. Karma is certainly one factor but the world we live in is also a factor. I will give two examples of the world playing a role in our lives. We have lived through a pandemic since the beginning of 2020. Everyone regardless of their karma has suffered at least mental anguish due to this pandemic. Another example is the change brought about by the discovery of antibiotic. Before the discovery of antibiotic everyone regardless of their karma would have to suffer diseases due to bacteria. This suffering has been greatly reduced due to the discovery of antibiotic. So one cannot say that karma is the only factor that determines experiences.

The world is a dangerous place to live in regardless of one's karma. The theory of Karma cannot alone satisfactorily explain events such as genocide seen in the last century. Did the 2 million murdered Cambodians or the 6 million gassed Jews all deserve this? Did the colonised Indians deserve the colonisation? One is pretty much forced to bring in the dangerous nature of the world to explain industrial scale oppression. The only way to avoid the dangers of this world is by attaining moksha.

Dangerous World – Need for Moksha

"That Ocean, so terrible has sorrow for its waters. Anxiety and grief constitute its deep lakes. Disease and Death are its gigantic alligators. The great fears that strike the heart at every step are its huge snakes. The deeds inspired by Tamas are its tortoises. Those inspired by Rajas are its fishes. Wisdom constitutes the raft for crossing it. The affections entertained for objects of the senses are its mire. Decrepitude constitutes its region of grief and trouble. Knowledge..is its island. Acts constitute its great depth. Truth is its shores. Pious observances constitute the verdant weeds floating on its bosom. Envy constitutes its rapid and mighty current. The diverse sentiments of the heart constitute its mines. The diverse kinds of gratification are its valuable gems. Grief and fever are its winds. Misery and thirst are its mighty eddies. Painful and fatal diseases are its huge elephants. The assemblages of bones are its flight of steps and phlegm is its froth. Gifts are its pearl-banks. The lakes of blood are its corals. Loud laughter constitutes its roars. Diverse sciences are its impassibility. Tears are its brine. Renunciation of company constitutes the high refuge (of those that seek to cross it). Children and spouses are its unnumbered leeches. Friends and kinsmen are the cities and towns on its shores. Abstention from injury and Truth are its boundary line. Death is its storm-wave. The knowledge of Vedanta is its island (capable of affording refuge to those that are tossed upon its waters). Acts of compassion towards all creatures constitute its life-buoys, and Emancipation is the priceless commodity offered to those voyaging on the waters in search of merchandise. "

**Mahabharata Santi Parva Section CCCIII

Is Ishvara sanctioning violence on hapless victims?

The answer is no according to the Gita.

Resorting to Prakrti, Nature, which is My own Power, I send forth again and again this multitude of beings that are without any freedom, owing to Nature's sway over them.

Gita 9.8

These activities do not in any way bind Me, because I remain detached like one unconcerned in their midst.

Gita 9.9

Doesn't good karma protect completely a Jiva from suffering in this world?

No, only persons practicing spiritual disciplines are assured of protection.

Whoever, being devoted to me solely, engage themselves always in contemplation and worship of Me - to such ever steadfast devotees I ensure the procurement of all their wants (salvation) and the preservation of their assets.

Gita 9.22

Hence we can not even be sure that a victim deserved rape because of her past. It might be adhibhautika duhkha. Given this uncertainty it is not wise to even think of any metaphysical reason behind the suffering of a person. Leave that to the all-knowing Ishvara and concentrate on serving the victim and reducing her suffering.

Doesn't this explanation make the violence of the world a random event?

Yes, to a jiva it will appear to be random. It will not appear to be random to Ishvara.

This universe, which is the grossest of the gross entities, is the form of the Lord. In this Cosmic Form all the past, the present and the future subsist. Permeating this universal cosmic form, with its seven sheaths - consisting of five elements, egoism, and the universal intelligence - there is the Viratpurusha - the Cosmic Divinity. He is the real object of concentration.

Srimad Bhagavata Purana II.1.24-25

Pradip Gangopadhyay
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  • "The fruit of action is from Him, this being the logical position“ - so there is a possibility of rape or murder sanctioned by Him... – Say No To Censorship Jan 19 '21 at 15:28
  • I don't think you guys understand the nuance in the word 'justified'. It is justified from the victim's position, not from the perpetrator's position. "so there is a possibility of rape or murder sanctioned by Him" - No there is not. Because there is a statement 'Nairghrunya' in Brahma Sutras - meaning merciful. @sv – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:37
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    Why don't you add that explanation to your answer along with the reference? Right now your answer has a citation banner, so I didn't even bother reading. Also, the censorship committee has now closed the question, you should try to reopen since you agree this is a valid philosophical question. @ram – Say No To Censorship Jan 19 '21 at 15:40
  • @sv - well this question has already been closed. just like the previous one I linked that clearly explains what karma is about. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:44
  • @sv , there is also a difference between 'sanction' and 'allow'. There can be no act on earth that does not have God's 'allowance'. But 'allowance' does not mean 'agreement/sanction'. He has 3 states - Udaaseena, Anumanta, then Karma-Phala-Pradata. First - apathy, then allower, then enforcer. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:46
  • Let's try to reopen the question then. It might get locked eventually or closed again by the mod. You can still edit your answer & add the references even if the question is closed. @ram – Say No To Censorship Jan 19 '21 at 15:49
  • @sv - because the word 'rape' is sensitive, they've decided to lock it. I don't mind changing it to any generic 'crime', to reopen. This question of evil/God/justified/karma is as old as time, and so is the answer. Half-baked understanding of it leads to more trouble than total ignorance. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:51
  • adhyatmika, adhibhautika , adhidaivika - are not 'freebie' sufferings. They are just the agency through which a Jiva suffers, not the cause. Otherwise, random punishments for random people (imagine being raped for no fault of your own), is not a fair system employed in the world by God. – ram Jan 19 '21 at 15:54
  • @sv Ishvara does not sanction rape or murder. Karmic law (as designed by Ishvara) automatically allows bad things to happen to the perpetrator of bad deed. If you eat chili then you will feel the heat. – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 20 '21 at 11:58
  • @sv. God will never rape or murder you personally, but as punishment for past actions he will make it so that you will be raped or murdered as punishment for your own sins. – Ikshvaku Jan 20 '21 at 20:10
  • "he will make it so that you will be raped or murdered as punishment for your own sins" - exactly, so philosophically speaking, the punishment to the rape victim is sanctioned by God himself. Either that or karma takes its own course and even God has no control over it. So (speaking philosophically again), victim of rape (or any other serious crime) is simply undergoing a punishment solely based on the their own past karma. @Ikshvaku – Say No To Censorship Jan 20 '21 at 20:44
  • btw, if you haven't already voted, you should vote to reopen the question. @Ikshvaku – Say No To Censorship Jan 20 '21 at 20:44
  • @sv. It is both: based on one's own past karma, God will sanction punishment or reward. And yes I voted to reopen. – Ikshvaku Jan 20 '21 at 23:37
  • @sv - correct. Yet, we cannot stand by idle because 'they got what they deserved'. We should not pity the victim because they are innocent. We should pity the victim because they are guilty. It's like a child that touches fire. Do we say 'Told you so!', or do we rush to ice it ? People think mercy is preventing fire from burning even upon touching - Nope, that is injustice. – ram Jan 21 '21 at 00:38
  • @PradipGangopadhyay - you're contradicting yourself - "If you eat chili then you will feel the heat" contradicts"Is it even correct to claim that the victim was raped because of past deed? The answer is no.".. "Karmic law automatically allows bad things to happen to the perpetrator of bad deed" contradicts "Ishvara has not given any Jiva the right to claim that a victim deserved being raped.". Here 'justified' means from the point of Ishvara. It is obvious that no one can rape someone and then say victim deserved it. We're talking about 3rd party incidents AFTER they've happened. – ram Jan 21 '21 at 01:12
  • @sv - "punishment to the rape victim is sanctioned by God himself" - of course. Not just this punishment - all rewards,punishments, fruits of action are sanctioned by God, impartially. And they need not be direct, or immediate. If a rapist does penance (prayaschitta) his sentence can be commuted. If he is punished by king (raja), his quota is over. He could be punished in same life, or next, or some other future one. Only God knows how to connect the dots. All we jivas can say for sure, is that they are definitely connectable because God is just (ofc u're free to disbelieve that). – ram Jan 21 '21 at 01:21
  • @sv God is detached from the actual running of the universe according to the Gita. So philosophically God is not sanctioning anything. – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 21 '21 at 05:23
  • @ram Ishvara is detached from the actual running the universe. So one can't say that rape or violence against anyone is justified from the Ishvara's point of view. – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 21 '21 at 05:25
  • @PradipGangopadhyay - no Gita does not say that. That is Mimasaka's point of view - that God is not necessary for doling out the results. It's like saying - it is enough if you go to work, salary will come automatically (without company CEO signing paycheck). Even then, you again contradicted yourself - "Only Ishvara distributes the fruits of Karma." contradicts "Ishvara is detached from the actual running the universe" – ram Jan 21 '21 at 05:34
  • We are discussing the misfortune of one victim. Can the theory of karma explain industrial scale genocides seen in the 20th century? Did all those millions of people deserve it? – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 21 '21 at 05:35
  • Check Gita 9.9 to see that Ishvara remains detached from actual running of the universe. – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 21 '21 at 05:37
  • @PradipGangopadhyay - Absolutely 100% Yes. Each person's karma is his OWN. Whether he experiences it along with others, or alone, has no relevance to anything. For e.g. - We all drive cars, polluting air together. When acid rain falls, we all suffer as a group. When a mob kills a person, they all have a hand in it. When a society decides to legalize cow slaughter by voting, they all have a hand in it. Even in Holocaust some Jews escaped - Why ? In Bhopal Gas tragedy, one agnihotri's house escaped. Why? YOUR karma will decide YOUR results. Has no bearing whether others around you did same crime – ram Jan 21 '21 at 05:46
  • "Check Gita 9.9 to see that Ishvara remains detached from actual running of the universe" - so you're contradicting Brahma Sutras that says Ishvara is the bestower of fruits. Either he is detached or he bestows fruits. Pick one. – ram Jan 21 '21 at 05:47
  • Also a very poor understanding of Gita 9.9 - He is detached from the fruits of actions. He is not detached from action. That is the very essence of Karma Yoga. He says so himself 3.22 - 'I have no desire/duty for anything in 3 worlds. Yet I continue to work' – ram Jan 21 '21 at 05:55
  • This question is a good question and it only got locked because it mentioned rape, if he had not done so, then it would not have been locked. – Terjij Kassal Dec 23 '22 at 22:41
  • @SayNoToCensorship Ishvara cannot command rape, but he could command killing. – Terjij Kassal Dec 23 '22 at 23:12
  • @SayNoToCensorship The term justified means in regards to can a human deliver punishment for Karma which is absurd and wrong. Also if Ishvara were to control someone, then that person would also gain bad karma and the cycle would continue not to mention the laws which punish such actions. Karma describes the quality of life based on birth due to previous karma, ie gunas, blood, situation and family etc. I don't know why you continue to stir up a clear cut answer? – Haridasa Feb 11 '24 at 19:39
  • @ram indeed Ishvara himself doesn't act in a way where he is attached to the fruits he simply does his duty as the universal father. – Haridasa Feb 11 '24 at 19:40