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Just because Chandalas are born from Sudra Father and Bramha mother,How justified is it to outcaste them and allocate menial and disgusting jobs?? Could they change their occupations if they gave up meat eating and cruel habits??

Sethu Srivatsa Koduru
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    Scriptures mention that Chandalas must be outcasted. Smritis like Manu etc. say that – Rickross Nov 25 '20 at 10:19
  • related https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/35225/12304 – YDS Nov 25 '20 at 15:17
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    @Rickross Chandalas how can they be happy?They were humiliated and mocked right?Can they change their jobs?Manu 10.41 says all Pratiloma Castes have Sudra nature..Supoose a Chandala wanted to do farming to eat Vegetarian food instead of Meat-WIll he be allowed to do so?Can they lead a life of respect and prosperity?Gautama 10.67 also says occupations can be exchanged. Please reply me – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Nov 27 '20 at 05:19
  • @YDS Please reply me – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Nov 27 '20 at 05:19
  • In today's time such questions are immaterial is not it? Everyone has the right to live with dignity in today's world. BTW as per Manu a law abiding Sudra can follow Vaishya mode of purification. That means a Dharma abiding low caste person can even lead a dignified life @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Nov 27 '20 at 06:53
  • @Rickross Sir yes I know that Sudra can lead a life of Vaishya-Please tell about Chandalas also-Please – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Nov 27 '20 at 10:58
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    All the so called outcastes are effectively same as a Sudra. So, whatever said for a Sudra is also applicable to any outcaste @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Nov 28 '20 at 06:07
  • @Rickross Sir really sorry please dont mind-When Bramhanas do Pancha Maha Yajnas daily and Manu 3.92 requires them to feed food daily to all-Is it just food or Annadana-Like all Items -Curry, Rice etc-Not just rice...really sorry sir but I am really in dipression hence get such stupid thoughts pls do help me, EVen Narada Muni says distribute food equally to all in Sb 7.11.8-12 Anna means just rice or proper food?How to control my mind from caste dipression?pls help me sir! – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 03 '20 at 09:56
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    Yes food means what can be eaten not just rice. If one can not donate food then donating rice, pulse is also allowed. For depression read stotras of your favorite deity daily with purity. facing the north or east. Don't hold the copy or book in hand but keep it in front of you. Depression occurs if Rahu eclipses the moon (mind) and the soul (sun). So reading stotras for Goddess Durga will also help. @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Dec 04 '20 at 06:25
  • @Rickross Thanks a lot sir! One more doubt Rickross Ji-for Changodya Upanishad 5.24.4 Shankacharya says Chandala doesn't deserve Food to be given…and thus making offering is forbidden…but where is it written? Even Smritis ask to feed Chandalas and all animals. Ofcourse the statement of Upanishads just meant that food offered to anyone would reach self alone. But why Acharya Ji says like that?Does meaning of Ucchista differs here?Ucchista food here means Saliva eaten food and in Manu when Servants are to be fed its food left after serving guests? – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 04 '20 at 11:53
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    No everyone should be offered food .. Annadana is a great merit. So, no restrictions are there on it. It can be done even in night when usually charity is prohibited in night time. I don't know why Shankaracharya says that I have not seen it .. may be in some context he says that. @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Dec 05 '20 at 07:07
  • @Rickross Sir sorry to ask too much but is it Mandatory that Chandalas live in graveyads? See this once-It’s not an easy job, Sanjit reminds you.The stench of bodies, some having been kept in mortuaries for days and opened up for postmortems, is unbearable. To drown out the putrid odour, Sanjit drinks copious amounts of local whisky. He claims to drink over eight bottles (each 250mls) every day. He says, I’ve already had two since the morning. All Doms need to drink. The job is such. There is so much smell. What to do? Read more at: https://yourstory.com/2015/04/dom-raja-of-varanasi – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 09 '20 at 11:03
  • @Rickross Rishis cant be biased towards anyone they love all sir-Why will they ask someone to stay and guard graveyards which stink?Or when bodies are buried they wont stink in Smashana?I heard Yogis go and meditate there....But why is Dom Raja saying it stinks??And he says they struggle a lot and its painful.....isnt it sad?? – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 09 '20 at 11:05
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    Well, everything is Karma I guess. I don't know what more to say. @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Dec 09 '20 at 11:34
  • @Rickross Thanks a lot for your patience sir. Can we say they used to roam as they wish and it wasn't mandatory and they could stay at portions or at end of cemetery where it wont stink? this is case of their personal comforts and dignity right?We always pray may all beings be happy peaceful and free from suffering.. – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 09 '20 at 12:01
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    I feel the scriptures simply say that they should reside outside the village. No one is forced to stay in Samshana if they don't want to. Also, in today's world anyone is free to decide what job they want to do. No one is obliged by these scriptural laws. @SethuSrivatsaKoduru So please don't worry about these things. – Rickross Dec 09 '20 at 12:09
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    Thankyou sir @Rickross. Thirupan Alvar Kanaka Dasa Janabai are examples of pure devotion and Krishna liberates everyone. As you said I will try my level best to get out of this. I dont have words to thank you ! So patient and compassioante you are /|\ – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Dec 09 '20 at 12:11
  • @Rickross You once showed how Sudra can take Job of Vaishya(Only job not change of caste) But why scripture say like this Vaśiṣṭha (2. 2 2-23).—‘Those who are unable to live by their own occupation may adopt that of the next inferior caste; but never that of a higher caste.’ Viṣṇu (2.15).—‘In times of distress, each caste may follow the occupation of that next below it in rank.’ What will Sudra do then according to Vasistha?

    https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/manusmriti-with-the-commentary-of-medhatithi/d/doc201834.html

    Quoted here and next verse

    – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Feb 21 '21 at 15:56
  • I think it refers only to Bramhana position right – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Feb 21 '21 at 15:57
  • I don't think it refers to the Brahmana position @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Feb 22 '21 at 05:45
  • But then what @Rickross ? Medatithi writes it refers to Bramhana only. And You said Lower Varna can take Job og Higher Varna when in distress like Sudra Vaishya etc//// – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Feb 22 '21 at 06:42
  • Medhatithi says that Sudra can live like a Brahmin when in distress? I don't know because I have not read Medhatiti's commentary. @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Feb 22 '21 at 06:44
  • No he says Sudra can live life of Vaishya in distress next varna is allowed. Not higher than that. @Rickross – Sethu Srivatsa Koduru Feb 22 '21 at 07:08
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    Ok, then he said the same thing that I have said earlier @SethuSrivatsaKoduru – Rickross Feb 22 '21 at 07:17
  • I don't see outcasting as right, but at the same time, I also heard outcasting happens to criminals and those who derelict their duty. Also, in Mahabharata talks about purification for mixed varnas and calls them better, than the original as they prescribe duties. Also supports Krishna's claim Varna is based on one's innate qualities even if it is ascribed at birth. https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-mahabharata-mohan/d/doc7458.html – Haridasa Jan 02 '24 at 12:31

1 Answers1

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No it is not justified. Nor is the definition of Chandala being born of a Sudra father and a Brahmana mother correct. These fanciful Smriti concepts are clearly wrong and are against the Vedas. This is clear from the Chandogya Upanishad definition of Chandala.

Those whose conduct here has been good will quickly attain a good birth (literally womb), the birth of a brahmin, the birth of a Ksatriya or the birth of a Vaisya. But those whose conduct here has been evil, will quickly attain an evil birth, the birth of a dog, the birth of a hog or the birth of a chandala.

Chandogya Upanishad V.10.7

As you can see Chandogya Upanishad is specifying conduct as the reason for different births. It has nothing to do with the caste of the father or the mother.

What does the Chandogya Upanishad verse mean?

It has nothing to do with the caste system invented by the Smriti writers. It means that depending on the amount of good conduct a person will be born to parents of high Sattva Guna (Brahmin), to parents of middling Sattva Guna (Ksatriya) or parents of high Rajasa Guna mixed with some Sattva Guna (Vaisya). The vast majority of persons with neither good nor bad conduct will be born of parents who do not have the gunas of Brahmanas or Ksatriyas or Vaisyas but whose conduct is not as bad as that of animals.

Those whose conduct has been exceptionally bad without any redeeming feature will have animal parents or human Chandala parents. This suggests that Chandala is defined as a person whose conduct is like an animal.

Example of Chandalas

The Nazis who gassed Jews were Chandalas and will have either animal birth or parents of the Chandala type.

Pradip Gangopadhyay
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    "As you can see Chandogya Upanishad is specifying conduct as the reason for different births" --- All Hindu scriptures say that nothing peculiar to Upanishads. Your Karma determines what will be your next life. – Rickross Dec 09 '20 at 12:12
  • So why is birth in an endogamous group used to determine Varna? What is the connection with conduct? – Pradip Gangopadhyay Dec 10 '20 at 13:13
  • @Pradip Gangopadhyay Varna classification seem to indicate intrinsic properties attained because of being born to certain parents in certain condition, as well as a child born to certain parents will be like copy/image of the parents. So a virtuous Brahmin's child will grow be like him. An alcoholic's child will tend to mirror his father-- in a way this says: where you're born will largely affect your lifestyle. – Harshiv Jan 27 '21 at 07:50
  • In that sense your birth place/time/parents largely affect who you're most likely to become. -- the conduct part is that, a Shudra when serving a practicing Brahmin for entire lifetime with honest heart, embodies Sattva majoring nature of the Brahmin, and would have increased chances of being born in upper casts as his nature becomes more Brahmin like. – Harshiv Jan 27 '21 at 07:58
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    Well, the verse says womb, hence they will be born in a place of privilege that doesn't mean they'll be good or bad. Aswantama is a good example of such where he was born high but fell low due to his evil deeds. – Haridasa Jan 02 '24 at 12:33