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Why do the evil-doers get continuously hurled into demoniac wombs by the Lord without ever attaining God, if they are puppeted by the Lord who resides in their hearts?

Key points:

  • It is God who punishes the evil-doers
  • The (unrepentant) evil-doers will never attain liberation
  • It is God who is the puppeteer of all living beings

From BG 16.19-20:

These cruel haters, the worst among men in the world, — I hurl all these evil-doers for ever into the wombs of demons only. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

From BG 18.61:

The Lord dwells in the hearts of all beings, O Arjuna, causing all beings, by His illusive power, to revolve as if mounted on a machine!

ruben2020
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  • BG 16 19-20 is rejected by both advaitic and visista advaitic acharyas as they all agree that eventually every one is eligible for moksha.. they consider this statements as apparrent statement just a warning from god to human from wrong doing.. otherwise evil people will do more evil if he is saying clearly that evilest people are eleigible for moksha.. but only SriMadvacharya accepts this statement.. say that some jivas will suffer permenanat andhamas.. – Prasanna R Sep 22 '20 at 15:30
  • @PrasannaR - no verse in BG is rejected by any acharya. They need to be understood correctly, like this answer. ruben, your question too also has a previous answers here, and here, and here – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:41
  • Does this answer your question? Conflicting idea about Karma in Bhagavad Gita? – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:42
  • you are not clear on your answers you are only saying the fact nature of seed.. if the nature of the seed is evil they will never attain god this is not answered properly there is no sankaracharyas quotation in the above answers @Ram just post it if you have – Prasanna R Sep 22 '20 at 15:46
  • @ram No. That question does not specify the Bhagavad Gita verses and is ambiguous. Here I have quoted specific Bhagavad Gita verses stating that it is God who punishes the worst of men and they will never attain liberation, yet the other verse states that it is God who is the puppeteer of all living beings. – ruben2020 Sep 22 '20 at 15:47
  • I also linked 3 other similar duplicate questions - see this. In short, God is not direct puppeteer (the translation is wrong). Also, there is no concept of permanent hell for a person, because there is no permanently evil person. But the concept of hell is permanent, because there will always be persons who do evil in samsara, and samsara cycle is permanent. – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:50
  • @PrasannaR, there is no concept of a permanently evil seed/person. When a person does good, he gets punya & goes to svarga, when he does evil, he gets paap and goes to narak. when the punya & paap balance gets down close to zero, he takes birth on earth. when punya & paap balance becomes exactly zero, he gets moksha. – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:54
  • @ram you are casting aspersions on clear BG statements adding your interperatation.. i dont know.. – Prasanna R Sep 22 '20 at 15:54
  • @PrasannaR, No. I have linked other answers with scriptural references which answer this same question – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:55
  • @ram when krishna says it clearly in BG than why you are contradict with statements saying there is no permenant evil.. this is what aspersion and interpertation according to their needs – Prasanna R Sep 22 '20 at 15:57
  • @PrasannaR, krishna does not say that. look at the sanskrit verse instead of english translation. by your logic, if someone does a small mistake (like killing an insect), then he is 'evil', and has to suffer in hell forever. your understanding is contrary to all laws of karma. In fact, it directly contradicts another gita shloka (kshine punye martya lokam vishanti - after punya gets over, he falls back on earth). similarly when paap gets over, he falls back on earth. – ram Sep 22 '20 at 15:59
  • its not small mistake there are different levels of evil deeds.. pathkas and mahapathakas and parama pathakaas.. BG 19 20 says clearly i will put those evil people in demons womb they will do more evil ethaventually again born more demonic womb no place of return.. what ever your example is not related the BG 19 -20 OP had asked @ram – Prasanna R Sep 22 '20 at 17:15
  • @PrasannaR, again and again in hell/demonic womb ? Yes. Forever ? No. Because forever hell means there is no chance of ever becoming good - this is the stance of abrahamic religions. And Bhagavan is never the cause for you doing good or doing bad. – ram Sep 22 '20 at 17:44
  • see ram you are digress from OP question here BG16 19-20 sloka which says this.. you are contraditing what krishna says in 19 20 in BG 16 chapter that is discussion @ram its left you – Prasanna R Sep 23 '20 at 06:57
  • @PrasannaR, this question has 2 parts - whether Krishna is puppeteer or not. and whether he pushes people into hell forever or not. That is why i linked 2 different answers - one from brahma sutras that says he is not puppeteer but only enforcer, and second from bhagavad gita that says he doesn't push people into either heaven or hell forever, so they fall back to earth after punya-paap account balance becomes close to zero. – ram Sep 23 '20 at 08:14
  • again you are digressing its not a discussion about pushing into heaven or hell its about liberation of evilest of evil souls when krishna says clearly in BG 19 20 then why contradict and distract the discussion away to heaven and hell which altogether different topic @ram – Prasanna R Sep 23 '20 at 08:53
  • "Why do sinful people get punished if they are puppets?" People act out the gunas in them, and the gunas are not decided by the Lord. – Aravind Suresh Thakidayil Sep 23 '20 at 15:29
  • BG 18.61 simply means god exists everywhere in all living things doesn't mean god control everyone its advaita vedanta Philosophy think it like this we all are made up of atoms (atoms exist everywhere does it mean atoms control us? – Goi Garg Jan 01 '21 at 12:11

1 Answers1

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Bhagavata 7.1.8

jaya-kāle tu sattvasya
devarṣīn rajaso 'surān
tamaso yakṣa-rakṣāṁsi
tat-kālānuguṇo 'bhajat

"When the quality of goodness is prominent, the sages and demigods flourish with the help of that quality, with which they are infused and surcharged by the Supreme Lord. Similarly, when the mode of passion is prominent the demons flourish, and when ignorance is prominent the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas flourish. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is present in everyone’s heart, fostering the reactions of sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa."

Bhagavad-gītā (14.11-13):

sarva-dvāreṣu dehe ’smin
 prakāśa upajāyate
jñānaṁ yadā tadā vidyād
 vivṛddhaṁ sattvam ity uta

lobhaḥ pravṛttir ārambhaḥ
 karmaṇām aśamaḥ spṛhā
rajasy etāni jāyante
 vivṛddhe bharatarṣabha

aprakāśo ’pravṛttiś ca
 pramādo moha eva ca
tamasy etāni jāyante
 vivṛddhe kuru-nandana

“The manifestations of the modes of goodness can be experienced when all the gates of the body are illumined by knowledge."

“O chief of the Bhāratas, when there is an increase in the mode of passion, the symptoms of great attachment, uncontrollable desire, hankering, and intense endeavor develop."

“O son of Kuru, when there is an increase in the mode of ignorance, madness, illusion, inertia and darkness are manifested.”

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present in everyone’s heart, simply gives the results of the increase in the various qualities, but He is impartial. He supervises victory and loss, but He does not take part in them.

TheLittleNaruto
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Krsna Dasa
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    He does not take part in them? Then how do you explain BG 18.61? What does it mean when we say that God is the puppeteer of all living beings? – ruben2020 Sep 26 '20 at 05:39
  • @ruben2020 - don't go by English translations of a Sanskrit text. – ram Jan 02 '21 at 06:00