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In shiva gita, there is a sloka explictly stating that the vedas are to be read only after the vratabandha/upanayana , sorry I couldn't find the exact sloka to quote but, I remember very clearly that Lord Shiva explicitly and very clearly mentions this.

So, by vedas, did lord shiva mean only the Rig, yajur, sama, atharva , or everything including the derivatives like the scriptures, geetas, upanishads, purans etc? Because their origins are the vedas in turn. Any insight or slokas clarifying this?

juztcode
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  • "vedas are to be read only after the vratabandha" -- Can you say what is vratabandha? – Rickross Jul 31 '20 at 12:08
  • I wouldn't have a word to describe it, probably known by different names, but you sortof get bald, and different pujas/rituals done. And your karma is said to start from that day. – juztcode Jul 31 '20 at 14:03
  • Ok I understand .. you must be talking about Upanayana/initiation. And it is true that Vedas should be read only after Upanayana. – Rickross Jul 31 '20 at 16:52
  • @Rickross , and could you please tell me about the second part of the question.. – juztcode Jul 31 '20 at 18:28
  • I have answered. 1. Lord Shiva does not mean scriptures like Puranas when he says Vedas. 2. Whether Upanishads are part of Vedas or not -- traditionally considered but there are some arguments against it. 3. Vyasa Smriti regards Upanayana as the requirement for reading even Smritis and Puranas. – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 11:30

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Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas are called the twice-born. Their first births take place when they are delivered of their mother's womb ; their second, when they duly accept the Gayatri Mantra from their preceptors (21).

Thus made twice-born, and free from all other faults, they become entitled to study the Vedas, Smritis and Puranas (22).

Vyasa Smriti verses


Verse 21 says that Upanayana (where one duly accepts the Gayatri mantra from their preceptors) is like the 2nd birth for the twice-born persons.

And, verse 22 says that only after Upanyana a twice-born becomes qualified to read not only the Vedas but also the Smritis and the Puranas.


So, by vedas, did lord shiva mean only the Rig, yajur, sama, atharva , or everything including the derivatives like the scriptures, geetas, upanishads, purans etc?


By Vedas, Puranas, Gitas are not meant. Vedas primarily mean Vedic Samhitas. Some people say that Samhitas+Brahmanas=Vedas. Some other says that Upnaishad and Aranayakas are also part of Vedas.

But, regardless of such difference of opinions, Gitas and Puranas are not part of Vedas. But, still the Vyasa Smriti is stating that Upanayana is the purificatory ritual that makes one qualified to read the scriptures like Gita and Puranas.

Rickross
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  • so females are given freedom to read them by birth! They don't have upanayanas, right? – juztcode Aug 01 '20 at 11:29
  • Haha no ... according to the Smritis and Puranas the women are not allowed to read Vedas. But probably they were allowed in ancient times. @juztcode – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 11:32
  • can you quote from the smritis, with the specifics, that women are not allowed to read them? And any insight on why they were allowed? – juztcode Aug 01 '20 at 12:12
  • Bhagwad mahapuran is particularly a devotion path principled, isn't it? Probably not bound by rules of the vyasa smriti? – juztcode Aug 01 '20 at 12:19
  • You can read Bhagavata Purana. Don't get discouraged by my answer. Probably there are verses in that Purana that state that for women and others (who are not allowed Upanayana) the Puranas were created @juztcode – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 12:31
  • Also pls read this answer. Specially the first blockquote. @juztcode – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 12:35
  • Women are not allowed Upanayana as per Smritis and Puranas. For them, the marriage is considered as their Upanayana (or initiation). Manu Smriti says: "2.67. The nuptial ceremony is stated to be the Vedic sacrament for women (and to be equal to the initiation), serving the husband (equivalent to) the residence in (the house of the) teacher, and the household duties (the same) as the (daily) worship of the sacred fire" @juztcode – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 12:39
  • what about the geetas? Not without the guru but without the upanayana – juztcode Aug 01 '20 at 13:40
  • Gitas are part of either Puranas or Itihasa (Mahabharata). So one can read them without Upanayana it seems @juztcode – Rickross Aug 01 '20 at 14:11
  • do you know of mentions of explicitly the slokas mentioning "women reading scriptures are a taboo" , the manu smriti quote didn't really do that ; and what is the sacred fire? – juztcode Aug 02 '20 at 09:20
  • The twice born men, after Upanayana is done for them, have some daily duties to maintain, of which daily offering oblations in fire (called as Agnihotra) is one. The Manu verse is saying for women the corresponding duty is performing the daily duties. @juztcode As per the Puranas I mentioned in my earlier comments women can read Puranas. – Rickross Aug 02 '20 at 09:43
  • @juztcode You should read this answer too. See, the Vedic initiation is prohibited for women (as per Smritis and Puranas). But in ancient times even women used to receive the Vedic initiation (Upanayana). And as per as Tantras are considered, women are allowed to be initiated (here the initiation is called Diksha). And, after initiation, a woman is free to practice/read any scriptures. In Hinduism, there are two parallel paths -- Vedic and Tantric. So, when one has prohibitions the other has opened doors. – Rickross Aug 02 '20 at 09:48
  • Regarding the quote of Vyasa Smriti I'm your answer , by the word 'Puranas' does it include 'Itihasas' too..Like Ramayana and it's versions , Mahabharata , etc.?? – LSSJ Broly Mar 13 '22 at 17:24
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    Yes probably because Itihasa-Puranas are often spoken together in a conversion @ShriRambhakt – Rickross Mar 14 '22 at 06:51