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The core of Hinduism is Vedas. One can be regarded as Hindu only when he or she accepts Vedas.

Vedas come under the category of Agama pramana or Shabdha pramana.

Before it comes
1. Pratyaksha or Empirical and
2. Anumana or Logical proofs

Only when these two fail to give us knowledge the Agama pramana becomes relevant.

On top of this the entire of proof of Vedas rests upon it being Apourusheya.

So how do we prove Veda Apourusheyathva and then establish Veda pramanya?

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    Just wondering what makes you think that Sabda Pramana is inferior to Pratyaksha or Anumana – Artist Formerly Known As CSD May 29 '20 at 10:01
  • There's upajeevathva –  May 29 '20 at 10:02
  • First you have to hear it using pratyaksha –  May 29 '20 at 10:03
  • Then you have to understand it using Anumana only then you can gain meaning, so it comes in that order. –  May 29 '20 at 10:03
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    Not necessarily. Someone (book or person) of authority also matters. You believe black holes exist because some figure of authority have said it. You haven't verified it using your senses (pratyaksha). And if you say inference (anumana) then also you are referring to work of a trustworthy source (sabda) – Artist Formerly Known As CSD May 29 '20 at 10:08
  • You are missing the whole point. Here I'm not using Anumana to prove black holes exist. I'm using Anumana to believe and understand what the scientist is saying. –  May 29 '20 at 10:16
  • How will you establish the Authority of the scientist?? –  May 29 '20 at 10:16
  • Using Anumana we establish the Authority of the scientist. So what's the Anumana to establish the authority of Vedas?? –  May 29 '20 at 10:17
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    what? how do you believe in a scientist using inference ? You believe in him on back of his awards, his pedigree, praises from peer group etc. So that is sabda pramana – Artist Formerly Known As CSD May 29 '20 at 10:53
  • Yes, his ability to predict the outcome of experiment, peer scientist approval etc etc. This is Shabda pramana. –  May 29 '20 at 10:58
  • Moreover you still need a way to prove the authenticity of Vedas to Buddhists and Jains and Charuvakas. How is it established?? –  May 29 '20 at 10:59
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    You need to establish frame of reference with opposite party prior to debate. I think Adi Shankaracharya also insisted on having a reference point before debating. Otherwise there can be no end to logic/counter logic. – Artist Formerly Known As CSD May 29 '20 at 11:10
  • Opposite framework is modern science and atheism –  May 29 '20 at 11:28
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    I don't know what you mean by opposite framework. – Artist Formerly Known As CSD May 29 '20 at 11:47
  • Frame of reference –  May 29 '20 at 13:45
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. –  May 29 '20 at 13:45
  • This is a dup of What is the validity of Authoritativeness of vedas?, so bounty should be canceled and question should be closed as a dup of the other. – Say No To Censorship May 31 '20 at 22:43
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    you are throwing away points..Apourusheyatva of the Vedas is axiomatic to Sanatana Dharma and objectively unprovable. To borrow from the vocabulary of math, it is a starting axiom that underlies a formal proof or derivation. – iruvar Jun 02 '20 at 01:17
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    @iruvar How do you win over buddhists jains etc who dont believe in this? –  Jun 02 '20 at 04:59
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    @VARUN.NRAO, let me flip that back to you - what arguments do you use to convince yourself of Vedic Apourusheyatva, or do you take it as a fait accompli? – iruvar Jun 05 '20 at 17:53
  • @iruvar I'm struggling with it. I dont have any arguments to say its apourisheya. It seems man made –  Jun 05 '20 at 18:04
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    @VARUN.NRAO, you and me both. IMO the answers to linked and related questions on this site fail to convince. It is hard to convince others of what one is himself not convinced. Maybe pick a different battleground with the Buddhists - say Atman v/s Anatman – iruvar Jun 05 '20 at 18:46
  • @iruvan its not about picking a battle ground. If Apourusheya is not established, then Vedas authority becomes questionable. It is of vital importance. –  Jun 06 '20 at 02:51
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    @VARUN.NRAO - IMO it's a lost cause. The Buddhist position on Vedas has ranged from indifference to repudiation over the last 2500 years. What makes you think you could change their mind at this stage? – iruvar Jun 06 '20 at 03:17
  • @iruvan its not about buddhists. Its the new Atheists. –  Jun 06 '20 at 07:49
  • @VARUN.NRAO have you checked this question? – Pandya Jun 06 '20 at 12:34

1 Answers1

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Evidence or pramAna is required only when one wishes to prove something tangible, but not with respect to intangible issue.

Many intangible issues like LOVE, HATRED, JOY, JEALOUSY, etc, fall into the domain of ABSTRACT things. Their existence can be experienced but cannot be proved.

SPIRITUALITY is also an ABSTRACT thing. It can only be experienced.

Basically, the Veda talks about pure SPIRITUAL concepts, in an esoteric manner and is called Apaurusheya.

Apaurusheya does not indicate that they were not composed by humans. The Veda did come out from the mouth of a humans, albeit sages, like Atri, Viswamitra, Vasistha, etc.

However, the source of the Veda was is SELF REALISATION, a state of BLISS and it is DIVINE.

Sages like Atri, Viswamitra, Vasistha, etc, did not compose the mantras of the Veda, out of their thinking or scholarly wisdom.

Those mantras emanated out of SELF REALISATION, which is beyond human's comprehension. Those sages had spread that DIVINE wisdom to mankind in the form of mantras.

Srimannarayana K V
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