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No Opinions. Only simple scripture fact based answers. Refer to line that indicates Proselytization?

NOTE: I'd like to bolster this question more (dont mind making it community/ wiki types if needed at some point), but the thought came to me while trying to find basis for "conversion and preaching" in scriptures of various faiths and I cant seem to find any root for this or heard of it in Sanatana pathways. And I did not want to lose track of these thoughts given that it's 2 am.

Any original root scriptures have lines to proselytize to Sanatana Dharma - Eternal way? Like Matthew 28:19?

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-28-19/

Some may point to the following question but it's not the same and does not lead towards what I am trying to get towards. Any scriptural evidence of the same in ancient text.

Is it true that one can not convert to Hinduism from any other religion or vice versa?

The word Hindu as we know is an outsider's labeling of the people living near/ past the river Indu.

This had a 2/3 part question and lot of gibberish & speculative insight, but the base of my question and premise has not been cleared in answers, nor did the question ask it properly.

This seems to talk all about conversion dynamics & conversation today. From or to Hindu; not as per "ancient scripture" and whether it even looks at "preaching and conversion" as something.

I'm also pointing flaws with the selected answer, again its objective was to satisfy a half baked question so what else could it do.

[BLOCKQUOTE]

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/441/3172

No, there is no bar in converting from any religion to Hinduism or vice-versa.

Vedas speak about Mlecchas as someone who is not Vedic and not Indian. Basically, mlecchas are people who speak an illegible language and not Sanskrit. The concept of geography, religion and language was all mixed with each other to be indistinguishable.

Hinduism doesn't have a conversion ritual unlike similar ceremony in Christianity or Islam which causes the inadvertent feeling of disbelief in the believer about his conversion.

Conversion only requires that person to accept the Hindu way of life and leading a Dharmic life.

Ref 1. Mlecchas in Early India [/BLOCKQUOTE]

  • Flaw in saying "no bar" for "conversion" is saying that "conversion even exists" as a concept or process. Because it was said somewhere that every Human being is a "born Hindu" (I cringe to use that word.. ). Conversion, does not exist.

  • No Ritual does not mean or quantify if the notion or concept of "preach" and "convert" exisits on way or another? It leaves it gray

  • Then says "Conversion only requires... etc" There is no scriptural basis for this; please point to which ancient Sanatana scripture even mentions "conversion" or "by accepting and leading" as a way of conferring "converted" title or status to one?

Even the selected answer and primary answers are missing the root, does the "notion" or "concept" of Preaching & Conversion even exist in the scriptures.

Because when we say the following:

  • Veda = Knowledge
  • Upanishad = Sitting close to the Master/ Guru etc.

Where is there the notion of preaching or conversion? We always were the place of "seekers", not "preachers".

Vedas, It's all about knowledge of Material world and Non material/ Spiritual world and the correlation in between.

Do not speculate or give me some modern Indology version. Deep authentic scriptural basis similar to this that exists or atleast does seem to now in Christianity.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-28-19/

So, I ask.

Any root scriptural basis or notions for Preaching & Conversion to Sanatana Dharma - Eternal way? Like Matthew 28:19?

PS: Found a lot of answers for similar thing on Quora and seems to echo the notion that "Conversion" does not exist under Sanatana way.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Hinduism-not-allow-conversion-Does-one-have-to-be-born-a-Hindu-to-be-a-Hindu

Alex S
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    the goal of any religion is to 'convert' people from Bad to Good, show them morals and why they should live by it, either through reward or punishment. To say that Sanatana Dharma does not allow conversion, is just silly. Anyone can follow the dharma mentioned in scriptures, just like they can follow the commandments or hadiths. But we don't proselytize as much as islam/christianity, and any 'conversion' nowadays is only a conversion-back to Hindus, since they were converted by muslims/christians first. – ram Apr 30 '19 at 23:06
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    Because it was said somewhere that every Human being is a "born Hindu" - Where is that stated? Conversion, does not exist. I think your argument is not valid. Just because it may be true that every human is a born Hindu, it doesn't meant that every human is aware of that since we know that many people do not recognize themselves as Hindus. So it makes sense for them to convert to become a Hindu. – brahma jijnasa May 01 '19 at 00:30
  • Btw, we are not supposed to comment or answer other people's answers in the question. Your Q most likely will get closed. Those remarks you posted here in your Q you better post there as your answer. – brahma jijnasa May 01 '19 at 00:35
  • @brahmajijnasa I pointed to the flaws, improper articulation of the other question as it deals in speculative way not seeking a scriptural basis as I am looking for one to find it, if one exists – Alex S May 01 '19 at 04:52
  • @ram I didn’t say it allows or disallows conversion. I said I can’t find any evidence of “concept or notion of preaching & conversion” at all in original scripture period. If there is please point to it. The notion of prostelyInf as you call it can have roots in a script or a person/ teacher. Yogananda was asked to go to the west by his Guru and so was Srila Prabhubad. But I can’t any base scripture say so that compels people to / mandate them to do so as in Islam/ Christianity. Wonder if it does in Sikhi or Buddhism. Root cause. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 04:59
  • @brahmajijnasa I’m not asking for your “making sense to convert” thought. I’m asking if the notion or concept exists in scripture. Sanata way says we are Sad Chid Ananda Swarup we just not aware or have self realised it. Conversion or preaching is non existent in scripture. If there is please find and tell me. Don’t debate with your logic. Find me a source. I’ve shared 2 examples of Gurus sending their specific disciple to preach / share, but no scriptural mandate for it for all others – Alex S May 01 '19 at 05:05
  • Read the answers from Quora and either those are the truth or you can find some rare scripture that does mandate preaching / conversion to include vs exclude others. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 05:07
  • BG 18:61 - Ishvar sarva bhutanam.. etc. / Sarva dharam sampann / EkamSat viprit bahuda vadanti . Vasudev Kutumbaka. Find me the exception to this kind of thought. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 05:11
  • My point is; Sanatana does not allow or disallow because it doesn’t require conversion because there’s no notion of conversion or preaching, because it knows every human is divine potential, unrealised and under false notion of “I am” the separative ego. So Ham - I am That. This Me is unreal maya. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 05:14
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    at the time of the vedas there were no other religions - so your question cannot be answered, as there was nothing to convert to or from.... – Swami Vishwananda May 01 '19 at 05:16
  • @SwamiVishwananda 1. At what time was what? 2. How can you accurately asses when that was :)) ? 3. How can we be sure there were / was no other theistic or non theistic belief systems? 4. Inspite of all of the above, my point being no notion of “conversion” or inclusion exists. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 05:33
  • @ *That (typed on mobile). Dating & Timing Vedas is hard so to even say anything about ANY other belief systems from THAT time is pure imagination. What we can say is Vedas are not Belief Systems or Religion at all. Their way of conveying is Seeking, Inquiry on matters of matter and/ or spirit. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 09:18
  • @Ram - Your fundamental reasoning is flawed. 1. What religions do as Bad to Good is your opinion 2. Sanatana shares knowledge of Material & Spirit - karma & its consequences; it does not label as good or bad. Ayurveda points to every food item and its pros/ cons objectively - no judgement. 3. Na Punyam Na Paapam - Chid Anand Rupam, Shivo hum Shivo Hum 4. Even the notion of Evil in form of Ravana + 1, Hirankashyap + 1, 2 brothers is dispelled by Vishnu + Jay Vijay story of them choosing to ROLE PLAY AGAINST his 4 Avatar Leelas. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 09:22
  • @brahmajijnasa - Awareness does not mean Conversion (as is formally present in other paths). Plenty of people of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists learn Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedic scriptures, chanting, meditation and do not need to convert or LET GO of their heritage.. They take & apply what they can or want without CONVERSION. Why? Because no scripture or rule mandates it. Iskcon and some groups have rituals but its THEIR thing, not a Sanatana thing.I personally know people who do the above without conflict or conversion. Thats the beauty of Sanatana Wisdom. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 09:27
  • I was not talking about is there a need to convert or whether there is no need to convert. When I was talking about awareness I just meant that some people do not recognize themselves as Hindus, and they can convert to become Hindus if they want to. Those Christians, etc, who learn yoga and hindu meditation can convert to become Hindus abandoning their Christian faith, or they can continue to be Christians even when practicing yoga. Yes, both are possible, but conversion for them is also possible. – brahma jijnasa May 01 '19 at 22:55
  • “Conversion” exists from your perspective & dictionary. Not from that of original scriptures. And this is where the fundamental flaw: Define what & who is Hindu? Sanatana way talks about dropping all identities. No concept of conversion exists in original wisdom. It exists in today’s minds & time. You can keep arguing but you’ve not pointed to a root reference for “preaching or conversion”. The concept is unfounded in ancient text. – Alex S May 02 '19 at 05:10
  • @AlexS Bible is false , check manu 12.95,12.96 – Hope Feb 20 '24 at 18:15
  • I believe Ramunaja converted a Jain, but there is no official stance on this matter. The Bhagavad Gita says that one shouldn't waste time on the ignorant although this could be subject to interpretation. Overall it's up to you really, but the Vedas are not to be read by Mlecchas keep that in mind. – Haridasa Feb 21 '24 at 02:39
  • The idea of conversion being banned is certainly flawed, but it isn't mandated either. – Haridasa Feb 21 '24 at 02:41
  • @Hope yep as per our faith only traditions expounded upon by Vedic sources are accurate, that doesn't mean one cannot be respected, learned from (when it helps to understand the primary source), or tolerated, but it is not scripture or authentic to the Vedic tradition in any way, shape or form. – Haridasa Feb 21 '24 at 03:01
  • @Haridasa according to them all non believers will burn in hell for eternity+ they have done numerous inquisition+ in majority they would tell and maybe bully you for not converting and tell you will burn in hell for eternity. I don't think I should respect someone who believes that I will be in hell for eternity – Hope Feb 21 '24 at 04:10
  • @Hope from some pastor for some reason I heard they don't know what will happen to you. Also, I do believe you're allowed to repent before god. Also unlike Calvinists and Madvist who believe in pre-destination If one doesn't repent, then they ignore the fact a supreme god in and of itself is like separation, that being said I understand what you mean, but I perceive it completely differently from you. Of course I would have to read the Bible and then analyze it further. But, what matters is if repentance is available. – Haridasa Feb 21 '24 at 12:22
  • Inquisitions were horrid and deserve not only to be cataloged but also taught in our schools. – Haridasa Feb 21 '24 at 12:23
  • @Haridasa Revelation 21:8

    But for the cowardly and and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    • Bible is false (manu 12.95,12.96)
     – Hope Feb 22 '24 at 06:28
  • @Hope I will ask someone else if repentance is possible just out of curiosity, but I agree with you the Bible cannot be true it is not derived from the Holy Vedas. – Haridasa Feb 22 '24 at 12:06

1 Answers1

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These may be some verses in Gita:

https://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/srimad?language=dv&field_chapter_value=9&field_nsutra_value=31&etsiva=1

9.31 Soon he becomes righteous and attains to eternal peace; O Arjuna, proclaim thou for certain that My devotee never perishes.

These may be some such verses in Bhagavat:

http://srimadbhagavatam.org/canto2/chapter4.html

2nd skanda, Chapter 4

(18) The people of old Bharata, Europe, southern India, Greece, Pulkas'a [a province], Âbhîra [part of old Sind], S'umbha [another province], Turkey, Mongolia and many more entangled in sin, immediately find purification when they take to the shelter of His devotees. Him, the powerful Lord Vishnu, I offer my respectful obeisances.

Motilal Banarsidass translation adds this footnote on the above verse: https://archive.org/details/BhagavataPuranaMotilalEnglish/page/n175

For the role of Bhagavatism in the social absoprtion of foreigners vide R.K. Mukherjee's Hist. of Ind. Civilization Vol. I. pp. 230-249.

May be you may look at this book to get idea of absorption of foreigners into Bhagavatism.

http://srimadbhagavatam.org/canto10/chapter31.html

10th skanda, chapter 31

9.The nectar of Your talks as described by the great thinkers drive away the sins of the individual souls who suffer [in this material world]. Charged with spiritual power they are a blessing for everyone who hears them. Oh how beneficent are the persons who with song spread those talks all over the world

Log Tran
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  • The translations from Srimad-Bhagavatam that you have quoted seems totally wrong and misleading. Please consult Motilal Banarasidas translations.The conversion is absurd in hinduism. –  May 01 '19 at 12:35
  • @log Tran - Have you looked at the question? Is there a mandate to preach & convert in original scripture - assuming there was something else known to convert from? I’ve already mentioned Iskcon & few others do of their own accord. – Alex S May 01 '19 at 14:39
  • Where is there a mandate to go “preach” to “convert” over here? Justify the answer in context with questions. Every system says surrender to X & you’ll be taken care of. I am the only way; say both Krsna & Krist. Where does Krishna say, go to all nations & preach & convert? He only says my devotee will be taken care of. Doesn’t say a devotee must go and acquire disciples. – Alex S May 02 '19 at 05:14
  • Log Tran, these verses show the broad mindedness of Bhagavata dharma to embrace all and some one may take inspiration from these verses and preach. But they don't mandate preaching as such. – Krishna Varna May 02 '19 at 06:39
  • @AlexS u are right, none of the above verses mandate one to go out and preach.. – Log Tran May 02 '19 at 12:20