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Venkateswara, AFAIK, is a form of Lord Vishnu. And, Alwars a group of Tamil Vaishnavite saints.

But, the article, Sri Venkateswara on the Kamakotimandali.org, says that initially, the Alwars used to see Venkateswara as representing both Shiva and Vishnu.

The hill that grants eternal bliss is Venkatachala. Or, Vem refers to sin and kata, to destroy. That hill which destroys the sins is called Venkatadri. The lord of such a hill is called Venkatesha or Venkatadrisha. From time immemorial, the formless Brahman has been worshipped in his saguNa aspect as Shiva, Shakti, Vishnu, Surya, Skanda and Ganapati. Followers of each of these forms claim their chosen deity to be superior over the rest, ignoring the lofty truth of the Upanishads, which proclaim that the Parabrahman is formless and that these murtis represent the saguNa aspect of the same Brahman.

Does Sri Venkatesha at Tirumala represent Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti or Subrahmanya? This question has been raised, answered and contested by several individuals and sects for several centuries now. Sri Venkatesha has been worshipped by Jains worshipped as Adimuleshwara, Vaishanavas as Srinivasa, Shaivas as Harishankara and Shaktas as Sri Bala Tripurasundari. There are enough reasons to associate this mUrti with Shiva, Shakti, Vishnu and Subrahmanya. I will not list the reasons why this mUrti is associated with Srimannarayana as these are already well known.

Association of Sri Venkateshwara with Lord Mahadeva and his parivAra:

  1. Early Azhwars [Vaishnavaite saints] praised Venkateshwara as a blend of Hari and Hara. In some of the older pasurams of Azhwars, the lord is said to have worn Chakra and Parashu, signifying Hari-Hara-Samaikya Murti But after the advent of Ramanujacharya, this practice was severely discouraged. By this time, Shaivaites called him Shiva and Vaishnavaites called him Vishnu. This becomes clear after one reads several shAsanas in the name of a local king called Thalalu Gosina Yadava Rayalu. He was a staunch devotee of Ramanuja who beheaded 101 Shaivas who claimed Venkatesha to be Shiva. For his staunch adherence to Sri Vaishnava philosophy, he was honored by Ramanuja with the title Sri Bhashya, to be named after him.

My question is if this is true then what is the proof of it? Which texts related to (or composed by) the Alwars prove this claim?

Sarvabhouma
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Rickross
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    Looks like the author of the blog is in strong opinion that Venkateshwara is a form of Devi or Shiva. Why did he write an article saying Venkateshwara represents Shiva or his family even when wrote it's answered already by many individuals? He mentioned many points in the article which are proven wrong by Vaishnavitespe and the Tirupati priests themselves. Looks like an opinion based article. Alwars didn't see Venkateswara as a Shiva and Vishnu. It's due to misinterpretation. I answered a question like that were Alwar poems are interpreted according to advaota. This looks like a similar one. – Sarvabhouma May 31 '18 at 14:19
  • @sarvabhouma: can you please link that question here for better contextual understanding.. – Vishwanath N May 31 '18 at 15:38
  • @VishwanathN That question was about Alwar pasuram but by different alwar and different pasuram. I am talking about misinterpretation to suit views. Anyway, here's the answer. https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/26314/5212 – Sarvabhouma May 31 '18 at 15:41
  • FYI the site I am citing (Kamakotimandali.com) is linked with Sringeri Mutt, just like Kamakoti.org is with the Kanchi Mutt. So it is not just like any other blogs. @Sarvabhouma – Rickross Jun 08 '18 at 06:49
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    It is a commercial website. It is not linked with Sringeri math. The writer only belongs to a succession of Shringeri guru parampara and not an official site of Sringeri peetha. This is official site. Read its description properly. Considering what you said is true, it will be very bad if a site affiliated with a math is spreading false news. – Sarvabhouma Jun 08 '18 at 06:54
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    The author of the article is one of the disciples of disciple of Sringeri guru parampara. That doesn't make the site authentic or affiliated with Sringeri Peetham. Official websites generally have .org as their domain. Official sites do not write comparative articles like these saying one god is another god and one person changed everything. BTW, you didn't clarify my question I asked previously "Why did he write an article saying Venkateshwara represents Shiva or his family even when wrote it's answered already by many individuals?" Check your sources properly. – Sarvabhouma Jun 08 '18 at 07:04
  • I have not said that it is the official site for the Mutt and also i have not found that out myself. I asked the person who writes the books that are hosted by Kamakoti.org today whether he knows anything about the other site Kamakotimandali.com or not. so, then he said just like Kamakoti is linked with the Kanch Mutt the other site is similarly linked with the Sringeri Mutt. So, obviously he is right. Also, i am not doubting that the author here is spreading false infos which obviously he is not. @Sarvabhouma – Rickross Jun 08 '18 at 16:47
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    I have read this article completely. All the points he mentioned are wrong. He is writing points to prove that the deity in Tirumala is not Vishnu. This is totally wrong. One who knows history of Venkateshwara will not say that. In the point you emphasized, you said early alwars saw Venkateshwara as Shiav and Vishnu blend. That is also wrong. One who knows Peyazhwar will not say that. He gave many points like these. He also says Balaji is referring to Devi but it's an epithet of Venkateshwara only. I wrote an answer about it too. Is naming one god as totally different god right thing to do? – Sarvabhouma Jun 08 '18 at 16:57
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    Kamakoti.org is very much different site. It hosts books, gives schedule and programs of mutt, hosts live videos of shankaracharyas. This website kamakotimandali doesn't do that. Sringeri.net does that.Consider this, my guru is a disciple of a jeeyar in Vaishnava tradition and I follow my guru. If I start a website and writing articles about Vaishnavism, will my site considered as official site of Jeeyar math? No. This is the same case. Next time you talk with that person, show him sringeri.net and also ask him to read the kamakotimandali site description well. – Sarvabhouma Jun 08 '18 at 17:00
  • No i can't talk to him like that and i can talk to him anytime. When he says that the site is associated with the Sringeri Mutt in some ways then it is (also it is fairly obviously to everyone that it is not the official website for the Mutt). He knows as he is an insider and a close associate of these Mutts. Also, i don't believe that the author is spreading wrong info. I just wanted to see how to validate the claims he makes. @Sarvabhouma Probably someone with a better knowledge about Alwars' works could have done that. – Rickross Jun 08 '18 at 17:12
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    Not only alwar works, there are many flaws in the article (Yes, I mean it and will repeat it).I already said how wrong the article is.Read Keshav's answer.He gave examples from many Sri Vaishnava works and commentary of work.It is not affiliated I can surely say that. Because the page says the name of the site is suggested by some woman of knowledge. They say they are a group of upasakas.They claim no affiliation to the mutt. They don't have .com domain. If one knows peyalwar and Tirumozhishai alwar they won't say that at all. He is the most staunch devotee of Vishnu.So, the article's wrong. – Sarvabhouma Jun 08 '18 at 17:18

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No, the Alwars did not consider Venkateshwara to be both Vishnu and Shiva. The verse that people misinterpret as saying that is verse 63 of Peyalwar's Moondram Thiruvanthathi:

tAzh saDaiyum neeNmuDiyum oNmazhuvum chakkaramum
soozharavum ponnANum tOnrumAl soozhum |
tiraNDaruvi pAyum tirumalaimEl endaikku
iraNDuruvum onrAi isaindu ||

My lord who dwells in Tirumala, where streams flow down in all directions, is the same as the Lord who has two opposing forms in one - matted hair, a tall crown, an axe, a Chakra, an encircling snake, and a golden waist band.

Peyalwar is not saying that Venkateshwara has attributes of both Vishnu and Shiva. He is saying that the same Vishnu who appears in Tirumala as Venkateshwara is the same Vishnu who appeared as Shankaranarayana. Shankaranarayana is an incarnation of Vishnu who has attributes of both Vishnu and Shiva in order to show that Vishnu is the Antaryami or inner self of Shiva. Peyalwar is comparing Venkateshwara and Shankaranarayana because both of them demonstrate Vishnu's attribute of Soushilya or accessibility to devotees. Here is what the Sri Vaishnava Acharya Periyavachan Pillai says in his commentary on the Moondram Thiruvandhadhi:

The same Soushilya that Bhagavan displayed in his Shankaranarayana incarnation, that same Soushilya is shown by the Lord of Tirumala in descending on that hill and appearing visible to all. The idea is not that Alwar is saying that the Lord of Tirumala is having the form of Shankaranarayana, but rather that the Guna of Soushilya is the same for both.

The Sri Vaishnava Acharya Prathivadi Bhayankaram Annangaracharya makes clear that the Venkateshwara statue only has attributes of Vishnu, in his commentary on this verse:

tiruvēṅkaṭamalaiyil araccaiyāka eḻuntaruḷiyirukku memperumāṉ pakkal tāḻcaṭaiyumillai, oṇ maḻuvumillai, cūḻaravumillai, nīṇmuṭiyum cakkaramum poṉṉuṇumēyuḷḷaṉa

The great Lord of the Thiruvenkata mountain has neither matted locks, nor an axe, nor an encircling snake, but rather only has a tall crown and a Chakra.

The attributes of the Venkateshwara statue and how they depict Vishnu was shown in more detail by Ramanujacharya, whose arguments are summarized in the Venkatachala Itihasamala which you can read here. In any case, Peyalwar was a staunch Vaishnava; he's the one who converted Thirumazhisai Alwar, who was at the time a Shaivite poet named Shivavakya, to Vaishnavism, by showing him the futility of worshiping Devas. This is described in the 6000 Padi Guru Parampara Prabhavam.

By the way, the story of Vishnu's incarnation Shankaranarayana is given in this passage from the Kuresha Vijayam, a 16th century account of Kurathalwan's debate in the court of the Shaivite Chola king:

In the puranic age, one staunch Vishnu baktha set his journey to Prostrate Sri Ranganatha. On his way he was completely exhausted and was terribly hungry. He found a temple nearby and decided to cook the food inside the temple and do the Aradhana to Perumal before consuming it. To his surprise, he found that to be a Shivalaya (Shiva temple). Being a true Vaishnava, his conscience did not allow him to cook there and he came out. But he fainted due to starvation. At that juncture, Sriman Narayana appeared in disguise in front of the baktha and offered help. The Baktha explained the he could not cook in Shivalaya. Lord Vishnu explained that it is not a Shiva temple but the deity inside is Vishnu. He then took the Baktha inside the sanctum and showed His true form with Sanka and Chakra as Vishnu is the antaryami of Shiva. Thus the Shankara Narayana Moorthy came to existence. This is only a leela performed by Lord with His baktha.

That is why this story conveys Sriman Narayana's Soushilya, because he is so accessible to his devotees that he will even appear to them in a Shiva temple if the need arises.

Keshav Srinivasan
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  • Understand this, the Supreme Brahaman is one. You call him Shiva or Vishnu doesn't really matter. That Supreme Brahaman will appear in front of you as you want to see him. That is why we have many Gods in Hinduism. And this also should convince you that why that Brahaman appears as Vishnu in Shiva temple. It's not like Shiva and Vishnu are different. They're one. Hence I don't consider your answer fully convincing. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 09:56
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    @TheLittleNaruto Well, Sri Vaishnavas believe that Vishnu is the supreme Brahman and Devas are Jivas. But we also believe that Jivatma and Paramatma have a body-soul relationship, i.e. Paramatma is the Antaryami of the Jivatma. So that is what the Shankaranarayana form illustrates, that Vishnu is the Antaryami or inner self of Shiva. But that's irrelevant, because Venkateshwara doesn't depict Vishnu's Shankaranarayana form. What Peyalwar is saying is that Vishnu, who is displaying his Soushilya by standing before one and all in Tirupati, is the same one who displayed Soushilya to that Rishi. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 13:36
  • I don't want to object any sect's belief, but truth is what I told in my previous comment. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 14:53
  • @TheLittleNaruto We'll have to agree to disagree on what the truth is. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 16:49
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    Not gonna happen, bro. Keep your belief with you and I'll keep my belief with me. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 16:59
  • @TheLittleNaruto Haha, what's the alternative to agreeing to disagree? Arguing? In any case, Vishnu vs. Shiva debates tend to be unproductive on the site, but if you'd like to discuss further with me privately my email address is on my profile page. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 17:02
  • Sorry I would avoid talking with you privately on these topics. Thanks for the invite though. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 17:05
  • @TheLittleNaruto OK, no problem. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 17:05
  • @TheLittleNaruto In any case, all the beliefs of the Sri Vaishnava sect on these matters are backed up by extensive scriptural proof and arguments. If you like I can suggest some Sri Vaishnava works for you to read. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 17:08
  • No Thanks. I read Ramayana and Mahabharata already during my primaries. Also I watched 2-3 TV series on Vishnu. Should be enough to know. I am more interested in Tantra. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 17:17
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    @TheLittleNaruto Reading Ramayana and Mahabharata are great, and watching TV serials is good for getting a basic idea of stories. But to arrive at a proper understanding of things like the nature of Brahman you need to study more Hindu philosophy, like the Brahma Sutras and other Vedanta works. In any case, this work by the Sri Vaishnava Acharya Vedanta Desikan would be a good work to read: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.92385 – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 17:24
  • Thanks, will have a look. By the way I come from a place where these sectarian things don't exist.To me, It's kinda polluting Hinduism. – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 17:30
  • @TheLittleNaruto Well, I certainly agree that there should be more unity between Vaishnavas and Shaivites. But that doesn't mean that Vaishnavas should stop being Vaishnavas. One needs to investigate the correctness of a belief before choosing to abandon it. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 18:35
  • Who says to abandon it ? You're just proving my points, " It's kinda polluting Hinduism." – TheLittleNaruto Jun 09 '18 at 18:47
  • @TheLittleNaruto Yeah, I agree with you that there should be more unity between those believe Vishnu is supreme, those who believe Shiva is supreme, and those who believe Vishnu and Shiva are equal. – Keshav Srinivasan Jun 09 '18 at 18:48
  • @KeshavSrinivasan a comment and a couple of questions. First a comment.
    1. To your point on (quoting) "One needs to investigate the correctness of a belief before choosing to abandon it.", it is very hard to do that, if not simply impossible. The reason is there is no correction proof for things like these. To prove something as correct I need some kind of test and set of conditions I can validate - necessary and / or sufficient conditions. It is hard to arrive at those set of conditions in matters such as these. Let me know if you ever land upon one such correctness proof.
    – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 06:50
  • That said, I respect all the faiths. Just that I don't think it is easy (or even feasible) to prove which school of philosophy & mode of worship is correct. Same thing for arguments involving the superiority of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva. I have a completely different take on those debates, but I don't how on the earth one can prove one way or the other. If everyone accepts the same source (a text or Guru), then a framework for proof can be created. But there are numerous scriptures in Hinduism, with multitude of interpretations. So I am not holding my breath. But let me know if you have one. – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 06:55
  • Now to questions -
    1. The pAsuram you provided at the top of your answer is very interesting to me. I wasn't aware of it. I still don't understand your explanation completely. Why would Periazwar see The Lord with matted hair and axe and snakes?
    2. To your point "Shankaranarayana is an incarnation of Vishnu who has attributes of both Vishnu and Shiva in order to show that Vishnu is the Antaryami or inner self of Shiva" how does the hymn show this and not the other way? For discussion, one could also take this to mean Lord Shiva is The Antaryami of Lord Vishnu - right? - contd in next msg
    – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 07:00
  • Just to make the intent clear - I am not triggering a Shiva Vishnu debate (I have an intense dislike for such debates, and in my reading, such debates distort The Vedic portrayal of deities). But what I am asking is, the hymn you quoted doesn't say one way or the other explicitly (either The Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu as Antaryami of the other) - is this right? It is the interpretations of later scholars that you quoted that take a certain view (they were Vaishnavite scholars) - is this right? If not help me understand where in the pAsuram does it say this explicitly – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 07:09
  • And on the same topic, there is a temple for Sri Sankaranarayana in the southern part of Tamil Nadu near the border of Kerala. Have azwars composed any hymns / pasurams on the deity in that temple? Considering that town is close to Sri Periazhwar's town (Sri Villiputhur right?) could there possibly be some connection between this sthalam and the verse you quoted above? Could it be that Sri Periazhwar was thinking of the Lord Sankaranarayana (in the town of Sankaran Kovil) when He visited Thirumala? Just a thought that occurred to me while reading your answer. – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 07:12
  • aarghhh ... Allow me to correct a spelling in my first message above. Read "The reason is there is no correction proof for things like these" as "The reason is there is no correctness proof for things like these"

    I meant to say "correctness proof" and thanks to my keyboard that got transformed into "correction proof".

    Please read that as "correctness proof"

    – Vidyarthi Jan 23 '20 at 07:17
  • “matted hair, a tall crown, an axe, a Chakra, an encircling snake, and a golden waist band.” - This is a reference to Parashurama who has matted hair, axe, probably an encircling snake. The axe especially is not a typical feature of Shiva. The only hitch is the snake, but sometimes they tend to describe such features we may not know about. Eg. Gnanasambandhar says Shiva even has tortoise shell, etc. So I think it’s safe to say this is showing that while being Sushila in normal, he can also take a fearsome form Of Parashurama – Adiyarkku Oct 25 '21 at 03:09
  • Absolutely hilarious, I pity your desperation to defend your alvars though you're in the wrong side. The mentioned Alvar clearly has admitted that he prayed to Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu fused form with explaining the respective attributes in a light tone, but still desperation from Vaishnavas like you stands high. – SHAIVAMRUTAM May 25 '22 at 17:01